Agalloch rips Dream Theater

[Claus / Intromental]

Their influence is undeniable as they pretty much single handedly started, or at least introduced to many, the often thrown around term 'hipster metal'.

Well, in that case they must be huge!!!!

Wait, what???? "Hipster Metal"???? I've NEVER heard that before. Did you just make that up on your own? If it's such an influential thing that Agalloch created single handedly, then why have I never heard of it?

c.

 

[dcowboys311]

Well, in that case they must be huge!!!!

Wait, what???? "Hipster Metal"???? I've NEVER heard that before. Did you just make that up on your own? If it's such an influential thing that Agalloch created single handedly, then why have I never heard of it?

c.

You probably haven't heard of it because none of the bands that fall under that tag play music that Intromental would be likely to consider.

It's a common term. Been discussed many times on this very board. I think it's dumb, but it's certainly relevant. It's not a specific genre of music, but refers to lots of metal bands that the hipsters/indie people/Pitchfork guys like. Pretty much anything on Southern Lord or a variety of other labels. Closely associated with beards, PBR, and flannel shirts. Some of the most well-known bands (excluding Agalloch) include Wolves in Throne Room, Boris, Pelican, and Sunn O))). I'm sure you've heard of all them.

 

[Up&Away]

Fates never reached the same level of popularity that Dream Theater did. Your entire argument is based on 'succes'. How did Fates do that first? Not my fault you can't specify the criteria behind your argument.

I agree, maybe I read more into your post than you intended.

You said DT was on top because they got there 1st. How did they get there
1st? You mentioned DT's music was more accessible. I contended that FW had accessible prog before DT. With that, why didn't Fates get there 1st? Why are they not as popular and sitting atop the genre like DT?

 

[nomisofsiman]

I agree, maybe I read more into your post than you intended.

You said DT was on top because they got there 1st. How did they get there
1st? You mentioned DT's music was more accessible. I contended that FW had accessible prog before DT. With that, why didn't Fates get there 1st? Why are they not as popular and sitting atop the genre like DT?

Because FW has always absolutely SUCKED in terms of marketing. Another factor is that neither of the two vocalists FW has had are anywhere near as accessible as Labrie (and now I'm fully expecting a Tribunal retort. )

 

[Prog_Please]

I think you would have to be insane to think Agalloch would draw more or even as much than DT.

With that said, if they are on an equal footing as DT, why aren't they as successful as DT? If DT are as bad or suck as most here would have everyone believe, why are they as successful as they are? Why does DT sit atop the genre with no successors in sight?

I never said Agalloch would draw more than DT. That would be an absurd statement. Nonetheless, the demand for Agalloch is strong.

Before I or anyone else for that matter answers your questions, you'd have to define success. I'm sure if you asked Agalloch, they'd consider themselves extremely successful. The only reason I could see DT as "more successful" is by sales, but that is a poor reason considering all the shitty bands with significantly more sales than both DT and Agalloch.

DT fans are going to be bias toward DT. Agalloch fans are going to be bias toward Agalloch. In the end, both bands are great. If you think I'm implying Agalloch is better than DT, then you've misread my comments.

 

[Prog_Please]

I didn't bring any pop artists into this because we all know why they are popular. To interject them into the fray is ridiculous and without merit.

The answer to your question is no. You failed to answer any of mine.

Its not ridiculous without merit considering Dream Theater songs have been featured on numerous gimmick "guitar hero" videogames. If pop music has been made popular through mass media, then you'd have to acknowledge Dream Theater has benefited from such devices as well.

 

[dcowboys311]

I agree, maybe I read more into your post than you intended.

You said DT was on top because they got there 1st. How did they get there
1st? You mentioned DT's music was more accessible. I contended that FW had accessible prog before DT. With that, why didn't Fates get there 1st? Why are they not as popular and sitting atop the genre like DT?

Alright, cool. I do agree that FW did the accessible prog thing before DT, but that doesn't necessarily put them at the top. Obviously there is no objective standard as to what puts a band at the top, but I do think that in order for there to even be a 'top' there needs to be a large enough pool of bands to sit on top of (that sounds wrong).

Like Simon said, Fates did not exactly have a great marketing plan. And the first few DT albums WERE great, and they deserved their status in the progressive community. They've managed to remain up there and stay relevant for a few different reasons, none of which include quality of music IMO. In fact, I'd say that a large portion of their fanbase didn't find them due to wanting 'progressive metal' but because they read about the individual members in a guitar/drum magazine, saw G3, learned about one of their many sideprojects, Rock Band/Guitar Hero, etc. Having Roadrunner back your band doesn't exactly hurt either, but that's somewhat recent in the grand scheme of things.

In the end, it all comes down to semantics. Your definition of the 'top' seems to be more tickets sold, more albums sold, and more visibility to the general public. Mine is more of a quality of music thing.

 

[TribunalRecords]

Because FW has always absolutely SUCKED in terms of marketing. Another factor is that neither of the two vocalists FW has had are anywhere near as accessible as Labrie (and now I'm fully expecting a Tribunal retort. )

and a retort you shall get...since you are way off.

So Ray Alder wasn't accessible but Queensryche's Geoff Tate was? The band whom FW were attempting to following into metal glories? FW were never chasing DT, they were going after what Queensryche achieved with Mindcrime and then ultimately, Empire with it's sales of 3 MILLION copies domestically. *ahem* Dream Theater has ever come close to that? hahaha. So your accesibility claim isn't very valid, but i will give you the marketing of Metal Blade via Warner Brothers was pretty awful and i believe that talk about it on the Parallels DVD, but it had nothing to do with vocalists i am sorry to say.

 

[artistXposure]

Funny. Aside from the Images and Words tour - DT is perhaps the most boring and uninspired live band I have ever seen. I've walked out on them since twice (went to see the openers) and went home after shooting 3 once. I mean really - who plays songs like that with zero emotion - like they are doing homework, while the singer retreats to the oxygen tent with any 30 sec plus break.

Good for Portnoy.

-A

 

[nailz]

By the way, this thread has finally become everything I'd hoped it would. DT Bashing and defending, Agalloch love and hate, and even Hipster Metal. WTF IS HIPSTER metal hahahahaha.

I love you all but I'm calling it a day here. Ciao.

 

[dcowboys311]

man, I love trollface, but don't you think he sort of loses his effect when you're putting related memes in every other post?

 

[Diabolik]

By the way, this thread has finally become everything I'd hoped it would. DT Bashing and defending, Agalloch love and hate, and even Hipster Metal. WTF IS HIPSTER metal hahahahaha.

I love you all but I'm calling it a day here. Ciao.

dcowboy called it best with "hipster" metal. It isnt a genre but a term used here in Chicago and in other metal scenes with the indie rock kids who suddenly jump into certain "cool" metal bands that the Pitchfork and other sites has deemed good or cool to listen to. In Chicago the Wicker park area is flooded with this type of fan. The type who goes and thinks metal is just a few power chords and screaming and you sit and do air guitar and drink PBR. They all dress the same and act annoying as hell at shows. In a million years they would never support say a band like Helloween, Rhapsody of Fire, or any power metal act. Odds are they do not even know about them. Metal they support is just something the sites they go to tell them is cool and different. Unfortunatly bands on Southern Lord and Profound Lore have gotten clumped into this. Since those bands have a underground cult status it makes them seem cooler to listen to and name drop to thier freinds. Come to Chicago and see a metal show at Double Door or Empty Bottle and you will see what I mean.

 

[Up&Away]

In the end, it all comes down to semantics. Your definition of the 'top' seems to be more tickets sold, more albums sold, and more visibility to the general public. Mine is more of a quality of music thing.

I never mentioned sales. I have simply asked the question why, and I have given my reason why. You seem to want to blow it off as something i haven't even brought up. Mine is a quality thing too. But I admit, that in itself is subjective. I would say DT's throngs of fans would agree with me also. Is their music the same quality as earlier material? No. But millions of people still think it's great stuff and will buy it over your Circus Maximus, Pain of Salvation, Symphony X, Vanden Plas, etc. anytime. And they will flock to see DT perform over these bands as well.

It would simply appear that your idea of quality is different than mine or the millions of DT fans out there.

 

[OrbWeaver]

This thread has finally turned into everything I hoped it would be. I am immensely enjoying reading everyone's contributions.

 

[nailz]

man, I love trollface, but don't you think he sort of loses his effect when you're putting related memes in every other post?

DONT YOU MEAN CARROTS? HAHAHAHA

But seriously, If reddit has taught me anything, it's post a picture when a thread is so epic that words fail.

 

[nailz]

dcowboy called it best with "hipster" metal. It isnt a genre but a term used here in Chicago and in other metal scenes with the indie rock kids who suddenly jump into certain "cool" metal bands that the Pitchfork and other sites has deemed good or cool to listen to.

That's not being a hipster though... being a hipster is liking something ironically.

You're describing scene kids. A hipster drinks PBR for its full body and light, flowery undertones of citrus.

Even though we all know it's terrible beer. And so do hipsters. Once PBR is "cool", they'll stop drinking it.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Some of the most well-known bands (excluding Agalloch) include Wolves in Throne Room, Boris, Pelican, and Sunn O))). I'm sure you've heard of all them.

Drone bands? So "Drone" and "Hipster" is the same?

 

[dcowboys311]

just google it

 

[Claus / Intromental]

just google it

Google is for wimps. I'll BING it

 

[dcowboys311]

Google is for wimps. I'll BING it

LMAO, I actually just did BING it. Some interesting picture results show up...