Amp vs. Re-amp shootout.

[aviel]

Hey fellas, decided to try and see if i can do any reamping stuff.

i dont have any reamp box. my chain is - Guitar> Focuserite Penta Preamp (instrunment input) > RME multiface line in > Reaper > RME line out > Amp Engl powerball.

Cables are klotz with noitrek plugs.

i do notice a difference between live amped and reamped track.

Here you have a shootout. first riff played live, second one is a reamped one, and third one is the DI. (the first and second parts are different takes, the second and the third are the same).

I notice the reamped one is more Mid Muddy and a little less clear. my question is, how bad is it? shall i steak to live recording? shall i change a DI? i guess there will always be SOME differences.. right?

 

[DanLights]

I cant hear it right now, but I'm sure if you used a High quality DI, high quality mic pre and high quality reamp box the difference would be little to nothing. It makes sense for the sound to deteriorate simply cause you're putting it through more links in the chain, it's going twice through the mic preamp, going through a DI that the amped track doesn't go through, etc. And the fact you don't use a reamp box might also be part of it, but I'm not sure

Edit: I just realized your comparison isn't from the same take, I think for a comparison to be fairer you would have to use the same take, to eliminate all possible factors aside from the reamping chain

 

[MindMunch]

You should use the same take to compare.
Anyway, reamp boxes are not a scam. Use one if you want to reamp.

 

[aviel]

hmm i am not sure how i can use the same take? when playing live my guitar has to go straight to the amp, nothing in the chain, so there is no way to get the DI signal i guess? spliting the signal to the amp and to the di will involve another thing in the chain which might also affect the "live" sound.

 

[DanLights]

hmm i am not sure how i can use the same take? when playing live my guitar has to go straight to the amp, nothing in the chain, so there is no way to get the DI signal i guess? spliting the signal to the amp and to the di will involve another thing in the chain which might also affect the "live" sound.

That's what a DI is for, no need for a separate split box, most DIs have a through output, you plug that output into the amp while the Xlr output straight to your mic pre and voila, you're recording both DI. And amped track at the same time. It's common practice in any studio, and it's in the reamping sticky by Glenn.

 

[Scott Horner]

Yeah, there is definitely a noticeable difference between the direct and re-amped tracks but as Dan said, you really have to use the exact same take for it to be a fair comparison.

 

[aviel]

and i guess a reamp box also then..

 

[Clark Kent]

I think you'd hear the difference a lot better if you were using a high gain clip.

 

[onemorelie]

I think you'd hear the difference a lot better if you were using a high gain clip.

+1

 

[aviel]

Tried with more gain.. there is an awfull diffetence in gain. the modern high gain channel with full gain up still sounded not there. and i used di s from the tone competition

 

[BeneGuitar01]

From what I heard in that clip the difference between live and re-amped seemed to be fairly negligible. Of course going direct was quite a bit different.

 

[aviel]

From what I heard in that clip the difference between live and re-amped seemed to be fairly negligible. Of course going direct was quite a bit different.

yup, but in high gain re-amp the difference with huge. an engl powerball which suppose to have too much gain with the gain knob at noon, lacked extra gain with the gain knob up full... can actually a reamp box solve all that?

 

[TomMartin]

yup, but in high gain re-amp the difference with huge. an engl powerball which suppose to have too much gain with the gain knob at noon, lacked extra gain with the gain knob up full... can actually a reamp box solve all that?

This is because you're not driving the amp hard enough before the amps gain stage. The level coming out of your interface going into the amp isn't as high as the level coming from your guitar. There's a few things that could be going on.

1. Maybe your interface just doesn't put out enough signal to replicate a guitar. It wouldn't be the first time I've heard about that being the case.

2. Maybe you're not going into your focusrite instrument input with enough gain. Turn your instrument input up while chugging hard on a palm muted power chord until it starts clippinng. Then back off the gain a bit. Nothing will ever go over the level of a low palm muted power chord, in my experience.

3. Reamp boxes often offer a gain control also, which can help bring a weak signal up to that of a guitar.

4. Using a TS of some sort? Turn the level up until it sounds right.... but this is definitely adding something else into your signal path and making it less likely to sound exactly the same. It won't necessarily sound worse though, so try it.


PS in your example, I actually preffered the reamped version...

 

[Strachan of D]

put a tubescreamer inbetween the out of your rme to the amp and adjust the gain there

 

[Arsenu,]

2nd tone sounds best and i would assume was a live one

if you're all saying her didn't do it "right" or don't have the proper gear, anyone minds doing an accurate comparison?
dying to hear the results!

 

[DanLights]

This is because you're not driving the amp hard enough before the amps gain stage. The level coming out of your interface going into the amp isn't as high as the level coming from your guitar. There's a few things that could be going on.

1. Maybe your interface just doesn't put out enough signal to replicate a guitar. It wouldn't be the first time I've heard about that being the case.

2. Maybe you're not going into your focusrite instrument input with enough gain. Turn your instrument input up while chugging hard on a palm muted power chord until it starts clippinng. Then back off the gain a bit. Nothing will ever go over the level of a low palm muted power chord, in my experience.

3. Reamp boxes often offer a gain control also, which can help bring a weak signal up to that of a guitar.

4. Using a TS of some sort? Turn the level up until it sounds right.... but this is definitely adding something else into your signal path and making it less likely to sound exactly the same. It won't necessarily sound worse though, so try it.

PS in your example, I actually preffered the reamped version...

Given he's not using a reamp box, and he said he did a second test with guitar tone competition DIs (properly recorded with a DI), the problem has to be he's not using a reamp box and the interface doesn't give enough volume for that. It makes sense, if the volume fed into the amp is too low, all the gain won't be enough to getting it sound right, after all gain is basically volume.

I'd love to do a comparison but I don't have the gear, if someone else does it would be awesome, but I'm sure the only difference would be deterioration of the tone of the chain isn't high quality, as I mentioned above

 

[deLuther]

I think interface (multiface) outputs must be set to Hi-gain mode (+19 dbu), this should help a little...
Probably there be not +19 dbu, but +13 dbu due to balanced-unbalanced connection. Reampers make conversion better, but, for example, stock Radial ProRMP reduces output even more with volume pot at maximum, modified unit have almost 1 to 1 transfer.

 

[aviel]

first of all thanks a lot for your comments, that's why i LOVE this forum!!

i think the focusrite also can be blamed a little bit (though i did set it to maximum unclipped level), but as DanLights said i did used DI's from the tone competition.

But correct me if i am wrong, isnt the signal getting out of the interface (which is basiclly +4dbu) MUCH stronger then a guitar signal? guitar level, so i basiclly was afraid of sending too much level to the amp and damage the tubes, thats why i didnt send it to the amp in full volume (after i tried raising the output volume to max but it didnt help to retain the gain).

Actually i will have to try the boost stuff in the chain, but again, i dont have any chance to harm the amp??


oh, and the 2nd tone is the reamped one !!!

 

[deLuther]

Output level can be different, depending on particular interface, in this case multiface have 3 level options with different output level (up to +19 dbu or around 7 Vp).
If level of recorded DI is lower than 0 dbFS (digital zero), output can be similar to peak level of high output passive pickup, if DI peak level is -6 dbFS, then output can be comparable to SD AHB-1 (around 3 Vp).

 

[Arsenu,]

oh, and the 2nd tone is the reamped one !!!

well put me on a frying pen an call me MJ! that sound good!

i think it's posts like this one which gives you the confidence that you can achieve a pro level tone using home-studio gear (re-amping, after all, can be done anywhere and does not require you to actually own anything but a guitar, DI and interface)

*still dying to hear a completely accurate shootout!