An anti-pirate curious about the warez enemy!

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Haha, wow, I'm glad my post has incited so much deliberation!

These are all great and interesting arguments.

Please continue! :kickass:

As soon as it was clear that you weren't trolling I had to jump in. This thread will only last a short while (we already have some nonsense posts that wouldn't even get modded up on /.), but after a while all of these threads wind up silly.

Jeff
 
Ok, here's a more philosophic question. A guy downloaded some pirated plugins. Used them for commericial reasons (shortly, he made money with them). Then when he made lots of money with the pirated software, he ordered the original version. He could afford it just because he made money with the cracked warez. Is this morally true? :) I wasn't judging or pointing fingers, or talkin bout someone, I just wanted ask a philosophic (!!!) question. Like the chicken and egg one:))))

Interesting thought 88mph.

Legally, it would still be illegal. As for moral... I'm not sure. Which is more important for companies... is it morals or money? I believe in the latter, and I would think that if a company would somehow get a guarantee from you that you will buy their software after completing a commercial session with pirated versions of it, they'd let you. Of course, they wouldn't let you in reality, but if you think purely business, it would be the obvious choise really. It's basically "Do you want money, or no money?".

About companies and morals though... sure, there are companies that really care about stuff, and they have a huge priority on morals but I'm not sure if those are a majority. I think today's world speaks for the opposite.
 
Also, I would like to blame the christians.

Mmmh... I agree dude. I think I'm gonna blame those guys because I'm tired today. I'm sure that if I look hard enough, I will find a connection somehow that makes them responsible!

... what if they are also the ones to blame for piracy? o_O

I mean, they raped and killed thousands and thousands of people already in the past... that was hardly legal! Piracy isn't legal too so... WOW I HAS FOUNDED A LINK!!

Ooookay, it's time for me to get back to my Python programming. Seriously. (I love saying "seriously" for no reason. Seriously.)
 
Where's the question? You're using things without permission from their owners. Congratulations, you can afford them later - just like I'm sure you could win at street racing if you stole a Ferrari.

The whole "don't make money off this stuff" bullshit doesn't make anything better. At best it's a struggling attempt by thieves who have enough of a conscience to want to justify things to themselves but not enough of a conscience to just do the right thing in the first place. Whether or not you profit from the software is irrelevant when you consider the actual infraction - that line is just a shitty attempt to say "Well, I may steal things, but I'm not as bad as THAT GUY!" and make it sound like there's a code of fucking honor.

Jeff
 
Mmmh... I agree dude. I think I'm gonna blame those guys because I'm tired today. I'm sure that if I look hard enough, I will find a connection somehow that makes them responsible!

... what if they are also the ones to blame for piracy? o_O

I mean, they raped and killed thousands and thousands of people already in the past... that was hardly legal! Piracy isn't legal too so... WOW I HAS FOUNDED A LINK!!

Ooookay, it's time for me to get back to my Python programming. Seriously. (I love saying "seriously" for no reason. Seriously.)

I would venture to say that most people pirating stuff are christians. :cool:
 
Python is instant win.

Jeff

Fuck yeah, it really is! I've done some Java, and C++ so far, and I'm kinda new to Python but it sure as hell beats the living crap out of the others. I'm making a script in Python for Maya 2009, that constructs buildings out of pre-existing 3D-models (like small pieces of the building, which gets arranged in a way so that it becomes a big and complete building) and I've gotten to know Python very well. Basic shit like for loops and conditions... I was like "Ok, how do the and/or operators work in Python?" and googled it only to discover that you simply write "and" or "or" :D That just made me smile. Seriously.

I would venture to say that most people pirating stuff are christians. :cool:

Haha! Seriously! Seriously.

Your way of thinking is funny, and I like it!
 
If you disagree, feel free to sit back and watch as I break into your house, relieve myself on your john with your computer, make myself a drink, and sleep under your roof for as long as I take to write my response.

Jeff
This is by far the best analogy to piracy I have ever heard :kickass:
 
Fuck yeah, it really is! I've done some Java, and C++ so far, and I'm kinda new to Python but it sure as hell beats the living crap out of the others. I'm making a script in Python for Maya 2009, that constructs buildings out of pre-existing 3D-models (like small pieces of the building, which gets arranged in a way so that it becomes a big and complete building) and I've gotten to know Python very well. Basic shit like for loops and conditions... I was like "Ok, how do the and/or operators work in Python?" and googled it only to discover that you simply write "and" or "or" :D That just made me smile. Seriously.



Haha! Seriously! Seriously.

Your way of thinking is funny, and I like it!

Seriously, it's serious business <--- I don't like the way that is spelled, seriously. Dam christians. :zombie:
 
The whole "don't make money off this stuff" bullshit doesn't make anything better. At best it's a struggling attempt by thieves who have enough of a conscience to want to justify things to themselves but not enough of a conscience to just do the right thing in the first place. Whether or not you profit from the software is irrelevant when you consider the actual infraction - that line is just a shitty attempt to say "Well, I may steal things, but I'm not as bad as THAT GUY!" and make it sound like there's a code of fucking honor.

Jeff

I hear what you're saying man.

But laws and stuff aside, should people who REALLY can't afford buying everything they use, just quit and give up all hopes and dreams and whatever? Is that really a great thing to do?

Sure, I also don't believe one should make money with pirated software, that's just self-explanatory the way I see it. But I also believe there are people who just want to learn for their own sakes, and to take their interest further and deeper but don't have the money for it.

Honestly, morally, I see it as an OK thing to pirate shit and just keep it strictly to yourself for learning purposes and whatever, as long as it's not even near any commercial business what so ever. Sure it's still wrong, but it's not as wrong as stealing someone's purse and beating them while doing it. If every "pirate" hobbyist had to give up everything, music, whatever, just for the sake of money, it would be one hell of a cold world to live in. Is that what we want? Will that make our world a better place?

Edit: Typo! Seriously.
 
I'm currently trying to wean myself of of pirated software. Started out on Cubase SX3, now I'm using reaper. I hardly ever use Wave's plugs anymore with the available Reaper plugins, Classic Series, Blockfish, Voxengo etc. I will say, though, that I don't really regret using the pirated software in the past. I never made money with it, and I used it purely just to fuck around and learn. I don't really see any harm in that.
 
I hear what you're saying man.

But laws and stuff aside, should people who REALLY can't afford buying everything they use, just quit and give up all hopes and dreams and whatever? Is that really a great thing to do?

Sure, I also don't believe one should make money with pirated software, that's just self-explanatory the way I see it. But I also believe there are people who just want to learn for their own sakes, and to take their interest further and deeper but don't have the money for it.

Honestly, morally, I see it as an OK thing to pirate shit and just keep it strictly to yourself for learning purposes and whatever, as long as it's not even near any commercial business what so ever. Sure it's still wrong, but it's not as wrong as stealing someone's purse and beating them while doing it. If every "pirate" hobbyist had to give up everything, music, whatever, just for the sake of money, it would be one hell of a cold world to live in. Is that what we want? Will that make our world a better place?

Edit: Typo! Seriously.

Once more... your personal profits from a piece of equipment are irrelevant. Completely fucking irrelevant. You're taking advantage of others' work without permission. The moral issue isn't whether or not you can take stuff *and make money from it*, it's whether or not you can *take stuff*.

On those who cannot afford expensive plugins... two responses. First, the practical - you have to be fucking godlike for free plugins to be holding you back... so godlike, in fact, that you should have plugin makers begging to be able to give you a check. Utter bullshit. The free stuff is more than a good enough start. Second, the 'quit begging for this to not be a theft issue' response... I've taken the liberty of paraphrasing slightly to show just how absurd this is.

Should people who REALLY can't become an astronaut not be allowed to hijack space shuttles?

Again, it has nothing to do with your personal financial situation, or your ability to profit - IT'S NOT YOURS. It's someone else's hard fucking work. Not only is there no practical reason to need those exact Waves plugins (again, you have to be fucking godlike for the 'imperfections' of the free plugins to be your biggest problem), they're not something you can be justified in just taking.

Well, surely someone who has pirated softwares on his computer and uses them only for his own enjoyment is not as liable as someone who actually profit from said pirated softwares...

Why the FUCK does it even matter what money you're making off something? Think of it from the developer's perspective - unless you've decided to pay them for each record you make, they have absofuckinglutely no reason at all to care. Yeah, it may seem like more of a dick move... but unless you're buying into some even more batshit nonsense earlier in the game it doesn't impact things nearly as much as you'd expect.

'Pirate' hobbyists don't have to give everything up - they just have to give up things they have no rights to. I have absolutely no trouble affording the equipment necessary for my hobbies. I also earn less than minimum wage and pay my own college tuition and personal expenses. This has nothing to do with "Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could just do whatthefuckever they wanted even if they weren't Richard Fucking Branson?", and everything to do with basic property rights.

What arguments (legal, moral, or otherwise) can you actually bring forward on this? There's no sense to it whatsoever - in fact, allowing this nonsense leads to such immediate contradictions that we'd spend longer typing and explaining them than finding them on our own. It's touchy-feely "You're not a failure, you can still try your best and nothing can hold you back - not even your own inability to pay your dues to others!" bullshit, not at all grounded in even the most basic understanding of property rights.

It almost makes sense... until you think about it. If you can figure out how I can get away with "Well, I'd never be able to do this otherwise, so I'm just going to break into CERN and see what this plasma does when you shoot puppies at it", let me know.

The world doesn't have a responsibility to accommodate anyone's whims. There are free things out there, and since you're smart enough to figure out that Python beats the fucking fuck out of that Java trash there's no reason why you can't make your own things. That's how I got to where I am (building toys I couldn't buy retail), that's how a lot of other great people got to where they needed to go (you can still find FOH engineers who got started by building a PA), and that's an even better solution to the expensive-plugin problem than theft.

Jeff
 
About my trashing that file to make iMovie hd work back then. Iz I pirate? Seriously.

Since that's use of the software in an unauthorized way, I'd assume so - but Apple's way of doing everything is so frequently boneheaded that I can't say for certain.

(And people wonder why I use free software.)

Jeff
 
johnny-depp-pirates-of-the-caribbean.jpg
 
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