An anti-pirate curious about the warez enemy!
- Thread starter REDBOX04
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rfahey86
Death Be Not Proud
How is that absurd? They are both illegal. He was just merely trying to say that making an excuse to justify wrongdoings doesn't change the fact that it is still wrong. Pirating software is the same as walking into a music store, taking it off the shelf, and walking out with it.
If you want it but can't afford it, is it still alright to steal it? (If anyone answers yes to this question, consider yourself a scumbag piece of shit!)
I'm tired of having to spend more of my hard earned money on a product because of dishonest people. Governments should really crack down harder on this kind of thing. If you get caught downloading illegally, you should get a minimum of a few years in prison. (yes, even for downloading music too!)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comparison
Yes, that's the more fair comparison imo. I don't think someone who tries to justify stealing software belongs in the same category as someone trying to justify rape. sorry, don't let my opinion get to all of you.
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
What I don't agree with you and I'm rude? I've been pretty tame up to this point.
I don't see any debate here, if anyone wants to steal shit more power to him. Just don't come into a public forum and expect people to offer help or pat you on the back over your ideas on the subject.
-Pirate is just a shitty word for thief.
-Plugs being to expensive is a crappy argument.
-There is no justification for stealing anything.
-Nobody deserves to own anything they can't afford (if that was the case then --where the fuck is my Ferrari).
rfahey86
Death Be Not Proud
rfahey86
Death Be Not Proud
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
When catrina happened and the looting started there were a bunch of people taking basic necessity items, no big deal in fact I think there is even protection from the law for this.
But then there were a bunch of assholes stealing large screen tvs. Huge difference, nobody needs a huge tv in a crisis situation.
But then there were a bunch of assholes stealing large screen tvs. Huge difference, nobody needs a huge tv in a crisis situation.
SocialNumb
Damn Christians!
Oh shit! In Africa people die from food and water. Who knew? Not I. My food and water helps me live and shit.
I think we should send the poor African people some Waves plugs. They deserve it.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
May I just point out, I am not associated with Leon at all. Even though I am from London too. He is a prick, and I hope one day he jumps in front of a tube train, and his severed head scares a child.
The apple app store is proof that if you price you shit reasonably, the masses will buy it. $1.19 for a game/utility that gets a few hundred to thousand hits a day? Bam, more profit than you would have seen selling it for $30 a pop.
Software has ALWAYS been expensive from day dot, and its no fucking different from the movie moguls who moan about ticket sales and people downloading their movies (and yet make more and more, year on year). I buy discounted movie tix via work for $10 each, but at the box office they're $18 for a standard, $3 extra for a 'bigger' screen' then another $4 on top for some 3d fucking glasses. Eat a fuckin' dick, immediately.
And guess what, I bought Windows Home Server 2011 for $100 bucks 2 weeks ago. The equivalent 6-8 years ago was $2000 for a 10 client license. What the shit. That's $2k they never got from me, yet I ponied up 100 kahunas easily because it was REASONABLE, enough to stop me from cocking around with workarounds. $29 for an upgrade from OSX 10.6 t0 10.7, no brainer.
People here might whinge about the pirates trying to justify their shit, but who gives a toss. You will *always* have a) thieves, and those that b) sample stuff. You see it all the time here in the GAS thread, where long time users get the guilts and go legit when shit gets cheaper. Price it well, see dividends roll your way. Same logic applies to online sales, especially here in Aus. The local retailers are raping us for shit that is ridiculous. $4700 for a dual recto -- and they then whinge about customers purchasing shit on ebay and not supporting them. A plague on their greedy penises.
Thread does not deliver.
Software has ALWAYS been expensive from day dot, and its no fucking different from the movie moguls who moan about ticket sales and people downloading their movies (and yet make more and more, year on year). I buy discounted movie tix via work for $10 each, but at the box office they're $18 for a standard, $3 extra for a 'bigger' screen' then another $4 on top for some 3d fucking glasses. Eat a fuckin' dick, immediately.
And guess what, I bought Windows Home Server 2011 for $100 bucks 2 weeks ago. The equivalent 6-8 years ago was $2000 for a 10 client license. What the shit. That's $2k they never got from me, yet I ponied up 100 kahunas easily because it was REASONABLE, enough to stop me from cocking around with workarounds. $29 for an upgrade from OSX 10.6 t0 10.7, no brainer.
People here might whinge about the pirates trying to justify their shit, but who gives a toss. You will *always* have a) thieves, and those that b) sample stuff. You see it all the time here in the GAS thread, where long time users get the guilts and go legit when shit gets cheaper. Price it well, see dividends roll your way. Same logic applies to online sales, especially here in Aus. The local retailers are raping us for shit that is ridiculous. $4700 for a dual recto -- and they then whinge about customers purchasing shit on ebay and not supporting them. A plague on their greedy penises.
Thread does not deliver.
SocialNumb
Damn Christians!
Yeah because the app that makes fart noises is just as hard and time consuming to code as a synth plug.
Everything should just cost 1.19.
Who cares if hardware (like an amp) actually cost money and time to produce.
Fuck those people!
Use the damn apple store motto for everything. It's been proven!
Everything should just cost 1.19.
Who cares if hardware (like an amp) actually cost money and time to produce.
Fuck those people!
Use the damn apple store motto for everything. It's been proven!
egan.
daylightdies.com
Yeah. The app store isn't a great analogy for a host of reasons including the fact that it has some of the most effective anti-piracy on the market. There are plenty of apps costing significantly more b/c they are more complex and targeting a smaller market.
Since Waves Mercury is part of the discussion here, I simply want to point out that stateside if you do the math it works out to $44 a plugin. That's hardly obscene, but even if you think it is Waves has taken some big steps towards affordability for the home user with their deals over the last year. You don't have to buy their entire (enormous) library.
....And then there are the thousands of free or cheap programs that do an excellent job as well.
Now I'll quote something I said 2 years ago b/c I can't say it any better now.
Since Waves Mercury is part of the discussion here, I simply want to point out that stateside if you do the math it works out to $44 a plugin. That's hardly obscene, but even if you think it is Waves has taken some big steps towards affordability for the home user with their deals over the last year. You don't have to buy their entire (enormous) library.
....And then there are the thousands of free or cheap programs that do an excellent job as well.
Now I'll quote something I said 2 years ago b/c I can't say it any better now.
rfahey86
Death Be Not Proud
Just to add to that, if you are a student waves give you a discount too. I think its 15 or 20 percent if I'm not mistaken. $44 dollars for a plugin is very reasonable in my book.
You twits. The app store is a vehicle for delivery, not the analogy. We're talking about PRICE here. People are gonna buy shit based on price and need. There's a reason why the discount stores and firesales go off tap when they come around. there's a reason for cheaper alternatives being in existence.
I didn't NEED to buy FIFA2011 for iPad at $12.99 but when it went on sale for $3, my frame of mind changed. Same thing is happening in the steam store with games going on sale, developers are seeing cash more than ever.
The shop down the road sells high quality shirts and suits for $180/$999 respectively. The store is almost always empty. They just had a warehouse sale a few days ago, and sold shirts/suits for $49/$299 respectively. You could not move without molesting someone in there.
Is this getting through? Consumers wAnt cheap product. Producers want maximum profit. Software is unfortunate in that it exists in a digital realm, so its easier to pinch. Best way to combat that? Price it as low as you can so it's near pointless to go pirate something. more people will invariably purchase it, and the pirates will still pirate. No matter how "niche" the product is, the economics of supply/demand will ALWAYS apply. Just look at all those group buy deals that happen on other nerdy forums. More for less.
I didn't NEED to buy FIFA2011 for iPad at $12.99 but when it went on sale for $3, my frame of mind changed. Same thing is happening in the steam store with games going on sale, developers are seeing cash more than ever.
The shop down the road sells high quality shirts and suits for $180/$999 respectively. The store is almost always empty. They just had a warehouse sale a few days ago, and sold shirts/suits for $49/$299 respectively. You could not move without molesting someone in there.
Is this getting through? Consumers wAnt cheap product. Producers want maximum profit. Software is unfortunate in that it exists in a digital realm, so its easier to pinch. Best way to combat that? Price it as low as you can so it's near pointless to go pirate something. more people will invariably purchase it, and the pirates will still pirate. No matter how "niche" the product is, the economics of supply/demand will ALWAYS apply. Just look at all those group buy deals that happen on other nerdy forums. More for less.
egan.
daylightdies.com
The problem with the "vehicle for delivery" is that there is no widespread pirate market for that platform so they are functioning without crack competition. Do you truly believe people wouldn't be stealing Angry Birds just b/c it's only $1? Certainly iTunes music hasn't enjoyed that flawless victory.
You don't need to explain the concept of supply and demand. Many audio software makers (including waves coincidently) have done quite well off of periodic major sales. But, the fact that you're a diligent shopper and that people want bargains doesn't change the fact that the retailers and manufacturers get to dictate the prices and they'll either go out of business or succeed based on their choices. In fact, many of the things you are citing are only perceived as bargains b/c the price is "low" relative to a generally understood value created by the market (and mrsp and avg street prices). It's hard to imagine that these major software companies don't have MBA's sitting around all day determining the ideal prices based on the market, dev cost, and demand.
Your last statement though is utter conjecture which hasn't been born out in the digital market. If you want proof think about how many people use reaper vs the number paid.
FWIW, if Waves sold the Mercury bundle at 75% off the current MSRP it would still be $1500 and these guys still wouldn't buy it. You're projecting your honest frugality onto them and it just isn't the case.
You don't need to explain the concept of supply and demand. Many audio software makers (including waves coincidently) have done quite well off of periodic major sales. But, the fact that you're a diligent shopper and that people want bargains doesn't change the fact that the retailers and manufacturers get to dictate the prices and they'll either go out of business or succeed based on their choices. In fact, many of the things you are citing are only perceived as bargains b/c the price is "low" relative to a generally understood value created by the market (and mrsp and avg street prices). It's hard to imagine that these major software companies don't have MBA's sitting around all day determining the ideal prices based on the market, dev cost, and demand.
Your last statement though is utter conjecture which hasn't been born out in the digital market. If you want proof think about how many people use reaper vs the number paid.
FWIW, if Waves sold the Mercury bundle at 75% off the current MSRP it would still be $1500 and these guys still wouldn't buy it. You're projecting your honest frugality onto them and it just isn't the case.
crillemannen
Member
Waves have lowered their prices quite a bit, and that made me go legit and buy the plugins i use. It ended up to be 250$ for Power pack and the C4.
I really think the plugin companies would benefit from having lower prices = sell more.
Noone can seriously argue for piracy and not sounding like an arse, because it don't make sense.
I really think the plugin companies would benefit from having lower prices = sell more.
Noone can seriously argue for piracy and not sounding like an arse, because it don't make sense.
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
I don't think anyone is not going to admit they would love to see software cheaper. Shit everything I have bought plugin wise was on sale (I'm patient enough to wait for a sale).
My only point is the cost of software is an absolutely retarded excuse for stealing it. Like everything in life, you can't afford what you want then you shouldn't be in possession of it.
The whole debate is rather shitty all around and it boggles my mind that any pirate would even bring it up. Like I said before, you want to steal shit? That's great, good for you, fuck you and all of your endeavors. Don't come around here expecting us to "understand" just because you can't afford said software.
My only point is the cost of software is an absolutely retarded excuse for stealing it. Like everything in life, you can't afford what you want then you shouldn't be in possession of it.
The whole debate is rather shitty all around and it boggles my mind that any pirate would even bring it up. Like I said before, you want to steal shit? That's great, good for you, fuck you and all of your endeavors. Don't come around here expecting us to "understand" just because you can't afford said software.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
1. It's already been demonstrated, that for what you get, the Waves Mercury Bundle is cheap - $44 dollars a plugin. How cheap are YOU?
2. I was kind of astounded when Ermz posted his poll about his ebook. For me, 25/30/35 USD is an acceptable price. People were lowballing the fuck out of that thing - some people saying it shouldn't be anymore than $15. How cheap are YOU?
3. Cheap product cheapens everyone's experience: the customer doesn't respect it, and after the gas has worn off, doesn't consider it worth much. The manufacturer can't afford to eat, because they've not made enough money.
4. Group-buys cheapen the whole industry. Someone like IK does a group-buy, people get a bunch of good stuff for a good price, and then for the rest of their life thinks the rest of the industry is overpriced and full of corporate whores who want to make a fast buck. Which is far from the truth in my experience.
5. It makes more sense to sell something to 3 people for $60 each, than it does to sell it to 12 people at $15 each, or even 24 people at $7.50 each. Same net profit, but less support costs, less manufacturing. Less word of mouth, true enough, but if your product is good, then it will sell itself.
At the end of the day, psychologically, people associate free or cheap with low quality - it's how we've been trained over the centuries. It's the reason we never gave our album away for free, and I firmly believe we did the right thing. If you've worked hard on something, whether it is software or music or a movie, whatever... then you deserve to set the price and try to get something for your efforts.
I'd really like to see figures from someone like Acmebargig or ValhallaDSP, and see how much they've actually sold and what their margins are, because making software is not easy and it is not cheap. I also don't believe for a second that Ongel and LePou make their extremely AWESOME plugins and give them away for free, out of the goodness of their hearts. I think they're both quite young, and have a gameplan in mind.
People wanting cheap stuff is the reason all of our shit is made in sweat shops in China or India or somewhere. Don't make software turn out the same kind of result. It's just going to be shit for everyone.
2. I was kind of astounded when Ermz posted his poll about his ebook. For me, 25/30/35 USD is an acceptable price. People were lowballing the fuck out of that thing - some people saying it shouldn't be anymore than $15. How cheap are YOU?
3. Cheap product cheapens everyone's experience: the customer doesn't respect it, and after the gas has worn off, doesn't consider it worth much. The manufacturer can't afford to eat, because they've not made enough money.
4. Group-buys cheapen the whole industry. Someone like IK does a group-buy, people get a bunch of good stuff for a good price, and then for the rest of their life thinks the rest of the industry is overpriced and full of corporate whores who want to make a fast buck. Which is far from the truth in my experience.
5. It makes more sense to sell something to 3 people for $60 each, than it does to sell it to 12 people at $15 each, or even 24 people at $7.50 each. Same net profit, but less support costs, less manufacturing. Less word of mouth, true enough, but if your product is good, then it will sell itself.
At the end of the day, psychologically, people associate free or cheap with low quality - it's how we've been trained over the centuries. It's the reason we never gave our album away for free, and I firmly believe we did the right thing. If you've worked hard on something, whether it is software or music or a movie, whatever... then you deserve to set the price and try to get something for your efforts.
I'd really like to see figures from someone like Acmebargig or ValhallaDSP, and see how much they've actually sold and what their margins are, because making software is not easy and it is not cheap. I also don't believe for a second that Ongel and LePou make their extremely AWESOME plugins and give them away for free, out of the goodness of their hearts. I think they're both quite young, and have a gameplan in mind.
People wanting cheap stuff is the reason all of our shit is made in sweat shops in China or India or somewhere. Don't make software turn out the same kind of result. It's just going to be shit for everyone.
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