Another Iced Earth dessertion?

[Wyvern]

It seems Ralph Santolla left IE to join Sebastian Bach band. I don't know if this is news or not, but as far as I remember. Barlow, Christy, Tarnowsky, Santolla...Who's left in the band Schaeffer, Owens, Jarzombek and the bass?
Or have they defected too?

Is not that I'm an IE fan, but gee can someone put a lucky charm on those guys so they can have a stable line-up for 1 month

 

[Iced In Flames]

Its not so much that Jon should quit, but Jon should let people write with him. thats why the music has gotten stale.

Jimmy MacDunnough(sp) is still on bass. Who knows who the next axeman will be.

 

[Fangface]

I agree that Jon should hire a killer axeman to help him to come up with some new riffs, as they've become much more repetitive now. But I wonder if his ego would let another guitar player write music for Iced Earth...

Ripper is awesome in the band, it's time for them to use his talent on better riffs and release their best album ever.

 

[Wyvern]

Ripper was absolutely wasted in JP due to Tipton stubborness. I'm wonder how much Schaeffer is going to let him play in IE.

 

[sixxswine]

Jon should let people write with him. thats why the music has gotten stale.

I would agree with you that he needs outside input when it comes to writing songs. I wish he would allow himself to do more of this, I think Tim co-wrote or added to a couple tracks on "Burden," but I wouldn't call that a successful
co-writing experience. The music is stale?! I disagree there, it's all what you make of it. It'll be intersting to see when the replacement will be.
SIXXSWINE

 

[sixxswine]

Ripper was absolutely wasted in JP due to Tipton stubborness. I'm wonder how much Schaeffer is going to let him play in IE.

Look for Time to play a bigger role within the band that Barlow.
I think in all of the interviews that I have seen & read, it's clear that Jon sees Tim as a partner in the band. I don't how much though, 40%-30%?!
Who knows, one thing for sure is that, he will have the ability to write, something they were lacking when Barlow was in the band....

 

[Jean-Pierre]

Iced Earth has definitely gotten stale, recycling riffs over and over and over again. I enjoyed a little bit "The Glorious Burden" due to the absolutely glorious vocals of Owens, and Schaffer's Gettysburg epic was pretty good. Schaffer DEFINITELY needs to create a stable lineup and co-write the songs with the other members, or else it'll all go to hell.

 

[Iced In Flames]

As Jean-Pierre stated. It just seems that a lot of the rythem work is rehashed and the leads are nonexistant anymore. Not that there were great ones in the first place but still...

 

[Jean-Pierre]

As Jean-Pierre stated. It just seems that a lot of the rythem work is rehashed and the leads are nonexistant anymore. Not that there were great ones in the first place but still...

Seeing as Schaffer has run out of Thrash riffs since Burnt Offerings....

They need a good lead player that writes bits like Randy Shawyer did back on the early albums...good stuff.

 

[Walter_Langkowski]

Much like how Black Sabbath vocally got better with the addition of Ronnie James Dio, Iced Earth has done a reversal and gotten worse with the addition of Ripper Owens (vocally speaking).

Yes, the music has gotten very stale and repetitive, definitely lacking memorable songs that have become the IE trademark, such as on albums like The Dark Saga, Something Wicked, and even, to an extent, Horror Show.

I paid $5 for a two day-old used copy of TGB, and I'd say that that is a worthwile price to have paid for it, as there are really only three better than average songs on that album.

And yeah, Schaefer needs to drop a bit of the ego, acknowledge the fact that he'll need to swallow some pride (and give up some of the publishing royalties) and get an acomplished lead guitarist.

Otherwise, TGB will just be the start of a slow decline into mediocrity, like so many other bands.

 

[Jean-Pierre]

Much like how Black Sabbath vocally got better with the addition of Ronnie James Dio, Iced Earth has done a reversal and gotten worse with the addition of Ripper Owens (vocally speaking).

How do you figure that? Owen's carried that entire new album, with it's stale material. Barlow kept getting worse and worse and worse throughout the bands career (coincidentally a lot like Ozzy Osbourne in Black Sabbath after Sabotage).

 

[Walter_Langkowski]

Barlow kept getting worse and worse and worse throughout the bands career...

Ummm, okay... ...I really don't know how you can say that. Please feel free to explain that statement, but I will tell you that I have seen Iced Earth live 11 times since 1997, from being among 35 people in a dinky-ass club to being one of 2,000+ people witnessing them open for Megadeth, and I can honestly say that Barlow NEVER dissapointed live, not once!

And as for the albums? When did he get worse? He was not in charge of writing the material, so that wan't his problem or responsibility, so after that, his vocals were the strong point on a lot of occasions, even Horror Show.

Basically JP, I will respect your opinion if you say that you prefer Ripper to Matt (though I will never understand it), but to say that Barlow was getting "worse and worse" is a wee bit ignorant on your part.

 

[Jean-Pierre]

Well, here's how it seemed to me. On Burnt Offerings, he sounded absolutely SINISTER. It was perfection with his voice on that one.

On Dark Saga, the songwriting was a bit annoying and repetitive, but Barlows vocals were ok, especially on "A Question of Heaven". He had somewhat of an oafish warble on songs like "I Died For You".

On Something Wicked This Way Comes, it both the songwriting and vocals would alternate from good to crap track by track. The non-ballads = AWESOME! Especially Burning Times. The ballads? Suck city, every one of them.

Horror Show was just weak in all aspects, ESPECIALLY vocally, with the exception of Dracula. Even the band agrees on this one.

The Glorious Burden was inconsistent with a few really good songs here and there, and an awesome closing epic. And the vocals? Owens owned and OBLITERATED everything in sight! The sheer power and intensity of his voice made even mediocre songs (Except for "When The Eagle Cries" and "Hollow Man" - nothing could save those two) rule in some parts!


EDIT: I did'nt say Barlow was bad live, only in studio. He actually owned pretty hard live \m/.

 

[JonnyD]

Basically JP, I will respect your opinion if you say that you prefer Ripper to Matt (though I will never understand it), but to say that Barlow was getting "worse and worse" is a wee bit ignorant on your part.

Ripper Breathed some life into this band if Barlow had done the Vocals on TGB there is a good chance I wouldnt have bought it Matt was Great on ummm Burnt ...and Horrorshow ... But Ripper adds some Much Needed Balls .... (Not in the Midrange Power thing we discussed already) I dont know Maybe I'm ignorant

 

[SoundMaster]

The Glorious Burden was inconsistent...And the vocals? Owens owned and OBLITERATED everything in sight! The sheer power and intensity of his voice made even mediocre songs (Except for "When The Eagle Cries" and "Hollow Man" - nothing could save those two) rule in some parts!
.

Really? I shall have to check this record out. I purposely avoided it DUE to Ripper's awful vocals (his vocals ruined the shitty 90s Priest records). Perhaps he's toned it down a bit and has learned to control his voice?!?

 

[Jean-Pierre]

Really? I shall have to check this record out. I purposely avoided it DUE to Ripper's awful vocals (his vocals ruined the shitty 90s Priest records). Perhaps he's toned it down a bit and has learned to control his voice?!?

You didn't think he was good on '98 Live Meltdown? Jugulator was actually pretty damn good as well, "Cathedral Spires" is worth the albums weight alone.

 

[JonnyD]

Really? I shall have to check this record out. I purposely avoided it DUE to Ripper's awful vocals (his vocals ruined the shitty 90s Priest records). Perhaps he's toned it down a bit and has learned to control his voice?!?

'98 Meltdown was Awsome! ...... hahaha I dont think it was Really Rippers Fault that those Albums werent so good it was just Bad Song Writing in general .... TGB is 1,000 times the album Demolition or Jugulator could ever be! Even though Bullett train is a damn good song

 

[sixxswine]

Let's face the facts, Wally doesn't know what the hell he is talking about...
The humidity in Chicago has shrunk what brain he had left.
Wally, take that how you want to.
SIXXSWINE-

 

[sixxswine]

I dont think it was Really Rippers Fault that those Albums werent so good it was just Bad Song Writing in general .... TGB is 1,000 times the album Demolition or Jugulator could ever be! Even though Bullett train is a damn good song

Well put JD.
It's like Ronnie Dio & Sabbath, uuuuuuuuuuuhhhh, I mean
Tony Martin & Sabbath, uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhh...
I put my foot in my mouth....uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhh...
You get the idea right?! UUuuuuuuuuhhhhh... Or do I speak in a
a way that I only direct my posts to myself??!!!!
Wait, I got it!!!! It's Like Sammy Hagar & Van Halen, after Roth left!!!!!
Yeah, that's right, I finally got it right!!!!!
Go Cubs!!!!!! Go Bears!!!!!! Go Bulls!!!!!
More so the Bulls!!!! Cos' I'm The King of BULL shit!!!!!!
Right Wally?!
SIXXSWINE-

 

[Wyvern]

Since I started (without that idea) this mess I'm gonna put my $0.10 opinion

a) I believe FIRMLY that Tim 'Ripper' Owens is a very good singer

b) I do believe that "Jugulator" not being a great album was a fresh change for Judas Priest, and that undoubtely the bad writing and stubborness from Tipton made the whole thing fell apart. If they have kept the quality of composition and production of "Defenders Of The Faith" and "Painkiller", plus gave room to Owens for lyrics and more I'm sure "Demolition" would have never came out as the crap it did.

c) I heard MP3s of Owens with Iced Earth and I believe (and shoot me but is my belief) that he is not giving as much as he gave to JP. Not that he's unsuitable for IE, just that his voice was better in Judas Priest.

d) I never dug Barlow or IE in general so I'm biased and I'm not going to say more.