Another Theory Question: This time SOLO's

[NSGUITAR]

NS you said you went to MIT or GIT?

Then you should know that Pentatonics are neither minor or major and are interchangeable within a key.

Lets take the key of E Maj (C# Minor)

Play me 3 chords in the key of C# minor and play the http://www.food52.com/recipes/165_secret_cookiesscale over it and you will see it has a "Major" tonality and not minor due to the E being the 3rd. It's because E is the relative Major in the key of C#. its very difficult to explain, you just have to hear it and it gets into things like cyclical octaves, and how notes ring together. If you play a C# minor triad, with an E major triad over it your ear naturally pulls you to the "major" sound instead of the minor.

Try it, the results are quite shocking.

Berklee Student...


I am aware that Pentatonics are "interchangeable".. That's a matter of MODES, not scales.. Big difference.


Pentetonics are easily broken down as the skeletal systems of your simple diatonic scales.. C# MINOR scale and C# MINOR pentetonic share the same exact notes, only the pentatonic scales only has 5 notes total (penta), and diatonic scales have 7...


C# MINOR= C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B

C# MINOR pentetonic= C#, E, F#, G#, B

Given that the third of each scale is a FLAT third compared to a major scale, both are minor scales.. Flat 3rd ALWAYS makes a scale minor..

This is stuff I learned before college even.. It's just simple key signature stuff.

What the OP posted was something he could play over C#minor... No other chords were given.. So, regardless anything you play that's relative to C#minor is going to sound minor (including E major).

And once again, the Hirajoshi is minor due to the minor third and minor 6th.


C# Hirajoshi= C# (1), D#(2), E#(b3), G#(5), A(b6)

So.. Maybe you're looking at the right scales, or I'm completely misreading what you're trying to say? The theory is all there.


BTW, this is the healthy argument that I find very fun, since it's regarding something I'm very passionate about.

 

[amarshism]

Hey guitar noobs.

NS is right. Except he missed the flat 7th in c# minor, b. It's funny because we all know who knows what they're talking about, they just keep making typos.

 

[NSGUITAR]

Hey guitar noobs.

NS is right. Except he missed the flat 7th in c# minor, b. It's funny because we all know who knows what they're talking about, they just keep making typos.

B is a flat 7, relative to C# minor (E Major) :b

Key of Major is F# C# G# B#


EDIT: Lol, you pointed out my typo with a typo I think.. Did you forget to type "Pentetonic"?

 

[amarshism]

It was deliberate alright

 

[NSGUITAR]

It was deliberate alright

Oh?

I don't get it

 

[amarshism]

Irony. Within the post.

It wasn't really, but it was incredibly ironic. And yeh, you left the b out of c#minor pentatonic. It's lol because we all keep making mistakes in correcting eachother.

 

[NSGUITAR]

Irony. Within the post.

It wasn't really, but it was incredibly ironic. And yeh, you left the b out of c#minor pentatonic. It's lol because we all keep making mistakes in correcting eachother.

haha Awesome one.

 

[guitarguru777]

C# Hirajoshi= C# (1), D#(2), E#(b3), G#(5), A(b6)

E# or F exactly!

Makes it MAJOR not Minor ....lol If it was E natural then it would be minor ...lol

 

[pikachu69]

E# or F exactly!

Makes it MAJOR not Minor ....lol If it was E natural then it would be minor ...lol

Ok so, to NS guitar and Guitar Guru:

C# Hirajoshi = C# D# E G# A C#

For two reasons.
1) C# minor has an E in it not an E#. So from C# to E is a minor third. Remember its relative major is E major guys.

2) There is no such thing as E#, that is en-harmonically spelt. I think you were supposed to say F, but even then if you did it would still be wrong as F is not one of the notes used in the C# Hirajoshi scale.
Based on the C# to E (minor 3rd) it is CLEARLY a minor scale, just playing it makes that obvious to my ears.

 

[NSGUITAR]

E# or F exactly!

Makes it MAJOR not Minor ....lol If it was E natural then it would be minor ...lol

My bad, another typo.. Yes I mean E natural... E(b3)

Ok so, to NS guitar and Guitar Guru:

C# Hirajoshi = C# D# E G# A C#

For two reasons.
1) C# minor has an E in it not an E#. So from C# to E is a minor third. Remember its relative major is E major guys.

2) There is no such thing as E#, that is en-harmonically spelt. I think you were supposed to say F, but even then if you did it would still be wrong as F is not one of the notes used in the C# Hirajoshi scale.
Based on the C# to E (minor 3rd) it is CLEARLY a minor scale, just playing it makes that obvious to my ears.

You're right and wrong.. Yes, E# is perfectly fine to say.. It is in fact en harmonically equivalent to F. But in a key signature such as F# or C#, you wouldn't call the note F, it makes no sense.. You'd call it E#..

F#- F#,C#,G#,D#,A#,E#
C#- F#,C#,G#,D#,A#,E#


and yes.. The Hirajoshi scale is MINOR

 

[guitarguru777]

You're right and wrong.. Yes, E# is perfectly fine to say.. It is in fact en harmonically equivalent to F. But in a key signature such as F# or C#, you wouldn't call the note F, it makes no sense.. You'd call it E#..

F#- F#,C#,G#,D#,A#,E#
C#- F#,C#,G#,D#,A#,E#

Correct, I just wanted to make sure the others understood that its the same note....lol

All of this is a moot point anyway as we have not yet recievd the chord progression hes soloing over.

 

[NSGUITAR]

Correct, I just wanted to make sure the others understood that its the same note....lol

All of this is a moot point anyway as we have not yet recievd the chord progression hes soloing over.

Either way, I'd use the whole tone scale! :b

Not theoretically 'correct' in any way, but I love the push and pull it can do..

 

[JHA]

I have never heard/seen anyone anywhere using E#/B#. If you look at piano keys it makes perfectly sense they don't exists.

 

[NSGUITAR]

I have never heard/seen anyone anywhere using E#/B#. If you look at piano keys it makes perfectly sense they don't exists.

Do you read music (not tabs) on a regular basis?


If you've ever encountered the key of F# or C#, then you've heard/seen an E#

I'm part of a jazz orchestra, and we use F# key sig a lot.. So hearing people say E# doesn't exist makes me laugh a bit, since we used it soooo mucch..

 

[JHA]

Well, I meant technically speaking it's E# indeed but in practise it's still F when played. Or that's how I look at it anyway if that makes any sense to you theory guys.

 

[NSGUITAR]

Well, I meant technically speaking it's E# indeed but in practise it's still F when played. Or that's how I look at it anyway if that makes any sense to you theory guys.

Yeah dude. I still call it F, typically but if I was to call it F in theory class or during orchestra I'd get flamed for it. lol

 

[DanLights]

AFAIK (which isn´t much), in practice E# and F are the same not but in theory they are not because it depends on the scale and tonic of the scale.

 

[JHA]

AFAIK (which isn´t much), in practice E# and F are the same not but in theory they are not because it depends on the scale and tonic of the scale.

Yeah indeed, but maybe it's because I've played some keys in the past I always translate them to F/C in my head since if you go flat/sharp on keyboard you're always hitting a black key.

 

[NSGUITAR]

AFAIK (which isn´t much), in practice E# and F are the same not but in theory they are not because it depends on the scale and tonic of the scale.

Correct. Also known as En harmonically equivalent

 

[Skinny Viking]

after reading this thread a bit more .. I realize why I hate theory