Any theories?

[dorian gray]

I really wanna know why popular music has to suck. I was awakened at 4 this morning by some loud bass. i thought it was some asshat sitting in a car listening to rap. so, i look out the window and lo and behold, its the goddam "Today" show and Kenny Chesney is rehearsing. I actually listened to it for awhile and was amazed at the incredible simplicity of the songs. the bass line was literally one long farting note. i laughed when i realized that i just compared the "number one artist in the country" to generic rap.
so i was wondering what makes huge groups of people listen to such shitty, uninteresting, and unambitious music. is it that one doesnt really have to "think" about what's going on in the song? is it a snowball effect - the more people listen to something, the more other people want to listen, as humans are social animals?
i know i shouldn't expect anything more from the terrible Today show but how nice would it be to have been to be awakened by blastbeats rather than an every-other-quarter-note bass drum?

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

Trying to cater to everyone is the problem. That way you make music that everyone likes...buuut noone really loves, and which will be forgotten next week when the newest hit comes on the air. Its not that it has to suck. Its just if you make it so incredibly formulaic and similar to what everyone else is doing/has already done, you have already got an audience waiting, and people will generally accept it quickly.
Plus i assume that most people have shitty taste in music. A few years ago, myself included.

 

[dorian gray]

good thoughts.
so, were you listening to kenny chesney a few years back or something?
ps: country is incredibly bad. the "genre" is by far, the most popular here in the states. The number of country radio stations virtually eclipses anything else. it makes me sick that country is America's "choice" of music. theres no arguing that Americans are a bunch of fucking hillbillies with terrible taste.

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

Lets see....I knew most of the words to most Savage Garden songs...No Doubt was my idea of Punk....Drowning Pool were metal and therefore extreme....I respected The Spice Girls for their song writing abilities....annnnnd i asked for a Real McCoy cd as a present.

Heh, actually this is more than a few years back now that i think about it...5 maybe? Ah, but i was still happy with that drivel.

ps. I do not know who Kenny Chesney is.
pps. That Canadian woman singing the US national anthem earlier in the week was hysterical.

 

[dorian gray]

you are honest, i like that. i've had similar 'problems' in the past.
ps: kenny chesney is a fucking joke.
pps: i was embarrased for that chick. no one bothered to help her out. bunch of pussies.
ppps: i should probably go to work. i will be blasting MAYH out the window as i drive by the Today show. fellow Americans, listen for it.

 

[R0l0]

nice thread dorian, this should be interesting.

My theory about much of the top selling pop music today: sex.
Sex drives the world, and it's also the primary gimmick used for advertising. It seems that so as long that an artist is visually appealing, people will flock to the music regardless of what it is(well of course it's not DM or something but you know what I mean hah). It's pretty obvious that Madonna, NSYNC, Britney Spears etc would not see a fraction of the sales if they were butt-ugly. It's as if people buy this music for the same reason that they look at porn or drool over celebrities. It's not only pop music too... a lot of popular bands or even rap/rnb stars these days are these "cute guys" that are oh so attractive to your typical female aged 12-25... and yeah I think women in that age bracket are the most "vulnerable" to forming a music taste based on looks of the artists.

and while we're admitting old music we used to like: I was a fan of puff daddy for a few months when i was 15 :zombie:
but anyways, I think it's excusable for teenagers to listen to crap music... however when one reaches the age of say, 20, and does not show at least some interest in more "intellectual" music, then you pretty much have a lost cause.

 

[Birkenau]

I think song structure also has a lot to do with it.

You'll notice that most pop songs won't go for any longer then 4 minutes (oh noes, attention span!), this is because 1. People who listen to this music can't stand listening/watching the same song for more then a few minutes, 2. It would need to involve instrumentals, which equals boring to your average listener, 3. It allows radio stations to play the song more often because it fits in well with their time schedule.

Choruses also seem to play a key part, I've noticed with a lot of artists and bands, the chorus is repeated over and over again, sometimes there is no versue, just a catchy chorus, because it's repeated it becomes easier to get it stuck in someones head, but in the end it's pretty unfulfilling. I think this is where bands like System of a Down fail.

Whenever I listen to pop/rock songs now, I think 'wow this sounds really thin', I'm not sure why, it's like theres only ever 2-3 instruments or layers playing, but when I listen to black metal or something, the sound is very chaotic and complex.

 

[R0l0]

^ agreed.

Actually now that I think about it, it's not that difficult to discern why people limit themselves to that kind of music: just think back to what your reasoning was when you were younger (assuming you had bad taste, I suppose some people are so musical they always had a good one ).

For instance I can remember when I was about 10-12, I had an argument with my father about how instruments are primitive compared to vocals because with vocals you could express words or something along those lines. And hell, that instrumental jazz/classical music he always listened to was boring to me compared to Mariah Carey or whatever was on the radio at the time

 

[Cutter]

Its simple. Spelled out simply by the man himself...Bill Hicks RIP.

"All the money in the world is in the hands of 12 year old girls."

So basically, the charts/top 40 countdown/ MTV or whatever equivelant you have in your country basically caters to the youth market who are generally the ones who buy the CDs and vote in Top 40 billboard SMS surveys etc. Grown ups generally aren't easy to sucker into this shit..I mean, at the very least they've got bills to pay.

Its quite simple really. Cater to those who buy the music, and you shall have money, which in turn brings the advertising and massive radioplay. There's a filthy marketing term called 'Mindshare' which is pervasive in our media culture. So therefore, all the rest of us are forced to put up with the shit on a daily basis. Further to this, there is the fact that if one girl screams, all the girls scream. Do not underestimate the power of the media on all levels...it pwns you.

I can't afford a CD player for my car right now, so am forced to listen to shitty radio. Sure, there's a few decent community channels that play some interesting and progressive music, but then they often play shit as well.

Its basically like alot of things in life though, I figure...you really have to search for the truly good stuff. Generally, stuff that is superficially pleasing can't hold my attention for very long...but there are exceptions.

 

[affinityband]

If we didnt have music that was like any of the above, we wouldnt have Opeth. and we wouldnt appreciate Opeth as much either.

 

[Cutter]

Well...this is all just stating the fucking obvious isn't it...yet we still keep asking the same questions...

 

[Kenneth R.]

not all pop sucks. i like quite a good deal of 80s/90s pop. as well as stuff like Björk and Third Eye Blind...

 

[shark22]

I really wanna know why popular music has to suck. I was awakened at 4 this morning by some loud bass. i thought it was some asshat sitting in a car listening to rap. so, i look out the window and lo and behold, its the goddam "Today" show and Kenny Chesney is rehearsing. I actually listened to it for awhile and was amazed at the incredible simplicity of the songs. the bass line was literally one long farting note. i laughed when i realized that i just compared the "number one artist in the country" to generic rap.
so i was wondering what makes huge groups of people listen to such shitty, uninteresting, and unambitious music. is it that one doesnt really have to "think" about what's going on in the song? is it a snowball effect - the more people listen to something, the more other people want to listen, as humans are social animals?
i know i shouldn't expect anything more from the terrible Today show but how nice would it be to have been to be awakened by blastbeats rather than an every-other-quarter-note bass drum?

I think most people don't really get into music the way you or I do. They only know what is right in their face. What I mean by this is that they don't really go out of thier way to find good music, they just turn on the radiio and listen to what ever is on. In regards to the rap shit, I think that is the trend now, it's like cool to be a negro wannabe or some shit like that. I have respect for those who are their own and don't follow the herd.

 

[shark22]

What bothers me is that even most of my friends do not like bands like Opeth or Porcupine tree.

 

[Erich w/ an h]

its psychological. the people who write the music for all manufactured pop bands understand the psychological nature of the "catchy tune". If the tune isnt catchy, it wont sell, because it wont stick in peoples mind.

My old music psychology teacher was commisioned to come up with 4-5 note jingles (like you hear for Pentium and Sprint PCS) to be used for comercial purposes. Its the same mentality that pop writers go for; get the song stuck in peoples heads so that they buy it.

What I find interesting though, is that people take such grievance with modern pop being what it is... but it was even worse pre-60s, where peoples day jobs were to write music in tin pan ally and give them to "pop stars" who didnt write anything (Elvis). And their attention spans were even less than ours, as they refused to make pop songs over 2:30 (which was long, 2 minutes was around average).

you throw that in with all the stuff mentioned in this thread already -- the stupidity of the average demographic easily controled by mass media, sex appeal, etc -- and youve got a recipe for $$$$. And just remember, the average person wants people to think for them. thats why theres mass media and religion.

Lets see....I knew most of the words to most Savage Garden songs...

A friend of mine brought me to see them live. For a pop group, they put on an entertaining show. But it was a day after Ozzfest '00, and Pantera kicked my ass, so i was chairbound not moving anyway

 

[Manbient]

There's lots more i could say on the matter... but specifically pertaining to Nickelback, read the review "Nickelback: The Personification Of Formulaic Rock" on this page:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...e/102-2612967-5166558?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

that's generally how i feel about it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

the thing with pop is it's not a genre. its just whatever is "popular". pop is the name of a variable that we call "what most people like at a given time x" unlike the established music genres, pop is always changing, its unifying banner only that "more people like this than don't" and that it makes good money because of that fact. that said, it also varies depending on where you are. in one country Rush could be considered pop. in the US we have young teen singers and country stars because thats what our "folk" music has become. in other places pop is something else.

what's "wrong" with pop is merely that since it changes all the time, it has A.D.D. and never really has lasting power for any of its features. i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with any one genre (including rap, country, dance, etc). coming from a familiarity with rock/metal though, i find it harder to discover the bands from those areas that i like, but i do acknowledge that they do exist.

pop tunes are generally catchy and short yes, but that doesn't mean they can't have a complex meaning or interesting contribution to society. after all, some of the Beatles songs were quite simple, yet many people argue that they were amazing. (i would agree).

 

[Erich w/ an h]

Kenneth - I partialy agree. youre right that pop isnt a genre, its more of a genre modifier. Nickleback is pop rock while 50 cent is pop rap. But while you can say theres no one particular style of pop, that modifier still affects all genres in the same way; you can tell the pop side of the genre more times that not. Its as calculated as it is amorphous.

Thats why I dont think "pop = popular" is the purest definition of it. I would think, if a country was that into Rush, that Rush would be popular, but not pop. If another band were to take Rush's sound, dilute it for the masses, and then become widely popular, they would be pop. And at the same time, there are people that are pop artists that arent popular. Like the American Idle style singers that were riding the Britney / Xtina wave that never made it past their first luke warm single. theyre still pop, even though theyre not popular.

In other words, I see pop as more intent, coupled with an existing genre, if you get my meaning.

 

[waz416c]

Lets see....I knew most of the words to most Savage Garden songs...No Doubt was my idea of Punk....Drowning Pool were metal and therefore extreme....I respected The Spice Girls for their song writing abilities....annnnnd i asked for a Real McCoy cd as a present.

Heh, actually this is more than a few years back now that i think about it...5 maybe? Ah, but i was still happy with that drivel.

ps. I do not know who Kenny Chesney is.
pps. That Canadian woman singing the US national anthem earlier in the week was hysterical.

SAdly Im stiall aproud owener of 2 savage garden DVDs......haevnt wathced'em in years htough.....hahahha..........but yeah.....thanx god for metallica, opeth, katatonia and Alice in chains.......and thank god for thsi gy I worked with....Id play po pand hed put on heavy music...adn I gradually started likin it....until I realized this was it...I grew up lstenin to Scorpion and Deffleppard...so the hair meatl was not really much appealisig iehr.....anwyyz...........yeah pop sux,.....hahaha.......PEAC EOUT

 

[Erich w/ an h]

... do you type with a baseball glove? or with your forehead or something?