Any theories?

[Nichrome]

Kenneth - I partialy agree. youre right that pop isnt a genre, its more of a genre modifier. Nickleback is pop rock while 50 cent is pop rap. But while you can say theres no one particular style of pop, that modifier still affects all genres in the same way; you can tell the pop side of the genre more times that not. Its as calculated as it is amorphous.

Thats why I dont think "pop = popular" is the purest definition of it. I would think, if a country was that into Rush, that Rush would be popular, but not pop. If another band were to take Rush's sound, dilute it for the masses, and then become widely popular, they would be pop. And at the same time, there are people that are pop artists that arent popular. Like the American Idle style singers that were riding the Britney / Xtina wave that never made it past their first luke warm single. theyre still pop, even though theyre not popular.

In other words, I see pop as more intent, coupled with an existing genre, if you get my meaning.

I pretty much agree with this; though I think pop can exist as a stand alone genre in its own right. I mean if pop is a genre modifier, what style of music is it modifying when it comes to, say, the Pop Idol (American Idol) singers. They just seem pure pop to me.

 

[Mr. Josey Wales]

... do you type with a baseball glove? or with your forehead or something?

omg i was thinking that the whole time, but just kinda overlooked it then the next post you just explicity stated what i was thinking except in hilarious terms...i had my orthodontic device in my mouth so i couldnt laugh so i shot boogers through my nose i soon as i read that and a low laugh vibrated through my clenched teeth. good one. now i have to clean up

 

[Jon Snow]

... do you type with a baseball glove? or with your forehead or something?

It's Waz. Leave him alone.

 

[dorian gray]

great points duders. interesting thoughts about pop but i was referring specifically to country. i know the two are very similar in scope and purpose but what about country acts like the great and powerful kenny chesney? i simply dont understand the appeal - which is considered to be far and away, the most popular music in America. When I hear country, I have to keep from falling asleep. At least pop music is catchy. The thing that bugs me most about country is it's image - both what it tries to be and what it wants to project to it's listeners. You Americans know what I'm talking about - with the cowboy hats and pickup trucks. That chick Gretchen Wilson portrays this perfectly. Although, my belief is that she has been conjured up by svengalis a la Britney Spears. It's all a bunch of crap.

 

[dorian gray]

bangadrian: ive heard alot of country living here in nashville. im sure theres some underground stuff somewhere but i dont care. the stuff ive been exposed to is lame to say the least. lame in the sense that the genre itself seeks to avoid any kind of progression, vision, creativity, or virtually anything other than the same damn chord progressions and the same sad, annoying lyrics about driving a pick-up truck. that's what i'm getting at here in this thread. why do so many people want to listen to that kind of "music"?
but, yeah, i *will* admit to dimissing rap entirely. rap is a joke. i dont wanna hear about how hip-hop and rap are just an expression of the culture blah blah blah. rap has no inherent musical value. dont argue with me either. i know everything.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

johnny cash was a baddass, anyone who says otherwise gets a boot up the ass

i don't like rap, 50 cent and all that garbage, it's just a bunch of manufactured beats and samples with zero musical or lyrical value....however there *are* some hip-hop artists that i respect (jurassic 5, deltron, others) but don't choose to listen to.

and if you need insight into why people like shitty music, look at who they elected president last november

 

[dorian gray]

open your miiiiiiiiiind

im just not that intelligent.

 

[dorian gray]

johnny cash was a baddass, anyone who says otherwise gets a boot up the ass

im not sure i get the whole johnny cash mystique thing. ive heard his stuff and it doesnt impress me. perhaps i would feel different if i listened to it back when he first wrote it? i guess i'm missing something. i know people like bob dylan too but i dont get that one either.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

im not sure i get the whole johnny cash mystique thing. ive heard his stuff and it doesnt impress me. perhaps i would feel different if i listened to it back when he first wrote it? i guess i'm missing something. i know people like bob dylan too but i dont get that one either.

Delia, oh, Delia Delia all my life
If I hadn't have shot poor
Delia I'd have had her for my wife
Delia's gone, one more round Delia's gone

I went up to Memphis
And I met Delia there Found her in her parlor
And I tied to her chair
Delia's gone, one more round Delia's gone

She was low down and trifling
And she was cold and mean
Kind of evil make me want to Grab my sub machine
Delia's gone, one more round Delia's gone

First time I shot her I shot her in the side
Hard to watch her suffer
But with the second shot she died
Delia's gone, one more round Delia's gone

But jailer, oh, jailer Jailer,
I can't sleep 'Cause all around my bedside
I hear the patter of Delia's feet
Delia's gone, one more round Delia's gone

So if you woman's devilish
You can let her run
Or you can bring her down and do her
Like Delia got done
Delia's gone, one more round Delia's gone

that's pretty fucking cold.

also, "joe bean", about a guy convicted of murder going to be hanged on his birthday ends:
happy birthday joe bean,
happy birthday joe bean,
happy birthday dear joe....*sound of neck snapping*
happy birthday to you

seriously, that's fucking dark

 

[dorian gray]

thanks for the examples cthulu. i dig 'em. but ill be honest and since this is an opeth forum, i'll have to say mike writes better (and darker) lyrics than that....and it's his second language. im just not impressed with cash's lyrics. nor his musicianship. oh well.

 

[dorian gray]

^hey man, what did i tell you? every country song boils down to pick-ups, drinking, or a blue-collar job.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

thanks for the examples cthulu. i dig 'em. but ill be honest and since this is an opeth forum, i'll have to say mike writes better (and darker) lyrics than that....and it's his second language. im just not impressed with cash's lyrics. nor his musicianship. oh well.

i dig, i can understand how it might not be appealing to some....but i think there's a big difference between jc and mikael's lyrics, overall i like mike's more but there's something really simple and sincere about cash's "fuck you" attitude that makes it seem really authentic. also he was writing lyrics like that at a time when few others were writing shit that dark, and i actually think he and mikael share a certain emotion in their lyrics in that they express the darker side of the human experience. country is certainly not my cup of tea, but i actually love johnny cash, and maybe it's for that reason.

 

[deliverance]

^hey man, what did i tell you? every country song boils down to pick-ups, drinking, or a blue-collar job.

whoa, you forgot a VERY important theme, that is in nearly every country song... losing their "woman," whether it be death, or them flat out leaving their "man" for someone else.

 

[MasterOLightning]

I think the only time I really listened to pop radio was when I was around 11-12. Then I started listening to classic rock until I got into metal. I'm proud to say I never saw the appeal in shitty nu-metal, or bland alternative. Classic rock isn't infallible though, and I can barely stand most of it these days.

I am not a fan of rap, but it is not fair to dismiss it entirely. You might be surprised if you heard something like Deltron 3030. Very epic feel. I'd rather listen to rap over punk and country, which I abhorr. Thankfully living in a northern urban area, there's only one country station, and it's easily avoidable.

 

[NFU]

dorian:

im not a johnny cash fan...i could pretty much care less about his body of work, but i think its a slightly unfair advantage to say that Mikael writes darker lyrics. First of all, johnny cash wrote most of his lyrics many decades past...where "dark lyrics" were quite out of the ordinary most of the time. As well as Mikael is in a DEATH METAL band...and isnt going to write songs about his perennial favorites and what kind of syrup he enjoys on his pancakes.


yes yes? good good.

 

[[onyx]]

As well as Mikael is in a DEATH METAL band...and isnt going to write songs about his perennial favorites and what kind of syrup he enjoys on his pancakes.

Forget the flowers, I wonder what kind of syrup he uses...

I'm partial to Mrs. Butterworth's, myself.

Anybody check out the categories that stores such as Best Buy have shit lumped under nowadays? How can Opeth be in the same category as Nickelback/Clay Aiken/Erykah Badu?!!? They're all in the Pop/Rock section.
*buzzer* Sorry, don't think so. Why not just ditch the signs, put up one that says "Music," and list them alphabetically? At least then they wouldn't have to make a half-assed attempt to categorize stuff.

Yeah, I listened to "popular" music when I was maybe 10, but being that I'm a trained classical musician, I've always naturally searched for stuff that challenges me. When I was 13 and heard Tool for the first time, that opened up doors to lots of new stuff. Meshuggah influences a lot of my piano compositions now. Funny thing for a guy who plays classical piano to say.

Oh yeah, and what am I listening to as I'm typing this? Sergei Rachmaninov: Vsenoshchnoye bdeniye - 01 - Priidite, Poklonimsya. Or, in English, Vespers or The Vesper Mass. It's a capella choral music. Interesting considering Rachmaninov avoided association with organized religion. (I'm atheist, for the record.)

 

[Birkenau]

When I was 13 and heard Tool for the first time, that opened up doors to lots of new stuff.

Same here, once I started to listen to Tool I started to realise how shit commercial music is (although Tool are still rather commercial).

 

[cthulufhtagn]

sure, and every metal song is about sex, fantasy, the occult, or metal itself

nu-uh, you forgot parents hassling you

 

[AlexGuinness]

An interesting thread indeed.

My initial reaction is that the majority of the populus seem less concerned with music than existing on their own terms... by this I mean that they focus on the things that are important to them (where I live it tends to be the "tracksuit wearing chav wankers in their shitty boy racer cars" from Chris Emerson's sig) and their only appreciation of music is a passive consumerism.

Many of them consider themselves to be fans of music, but they are only exposed to whatever they are spoon-fed by the commercial radio station or magazine of their choice. They may additionally be exposed to some other "music" when visiting a nightclub to look for another cheap Essex girl in desperate need of cock, if they remember anything through their drug addled brains...

Enter the art vs. business arguments.

I diversify a little with my contempt for where I live, but the principle directly links to the teenage girls mentioned earlier in the thread... It is more about having something to have in common with your mates, another means of identifying with your clique and avoiding identity. Maybe I am just bitter as I have always refused to comply with that sort of social stereotype.

Or maybe it is just that everyone else has a life and does not get pleasure in seeking out new and exciting (to me) things. Maybe we are the sad fuckers and it is time we grew up...

 

[dorian gray]

dorian:

im not a johnny cash fan...i could pretty much care less about his body of work, but i think its a slightly unfair advantage to say that Mikael writes darker lyrics. First of all, johnny cash wrote most of his lyrics many decades past...where "dark lyrics" were quite out of the ordinary most of the time. As well as Mikael is in a DEATH METAL band...and isnt going to write songs about his perennial favorites and what kind of syrup he enjoys on his pancakes.


yes yes? good good.

word.
also, glad to see you're not dead.