Anyone hoping Steven Wilson..
- Thread starter jaykeegan
- Start date
I like his vocals, being a fan of Porcupine Tree's In Absentia (trying to get hold of the other albums aswell). I find it adds a little more variety.
shadedlife
guru
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
foulwing
Baphomet's Messiah
- Jan 31, 2004
- 281
- 0
- 16
Ok.. i really hate these steve wilson hate threads.
1) Opeth decides to work with him.
2) Opeth at decides if his input is valid or not they do not have to do what he says.
3) if you think that steve wilson fucked up opeth. you are basicly saying that opeth has no creative views at all, and they are just a bunch of puppet musicians ala NSynk, Backstreet Boys but in death metal music controlled by steve wilson.
1) Opeth decides to work with him.
2) Opeth at decides if his input is valid or not they do not have to do what he says.
3) if you think that steve wilson fucked up opeth. you are basicly saying that opeth has no creative views at all, and they are just a bunch of puppet musicians ala NSynk, Backstreet Boys but in death metal music controlled by steve wilson.
Nico
Onward!
Gross exageration. I'd say its much more along the lines of: Steven Wilsons production values do nothing to improve Opeth. Opeth is a death metal band with a heavy emphasis on dynamics. Steve Wilson is a producer/songwriter of tryhard psycadelic rock. It's not a match made in heaven, I assure you.
nah i definately hope opeth continue to utilize steven wilson. blackwater is as beautiful as it is powerful the whole way through. The piano outro to leper affinity is beautiful and haunting and also sets up the intro chord to bleak perfectly. Its a major chord leading into this horrible 'bleak' din.. fantastic 
fair judgement is great the way it is. I didnt know that steven wilson did the vocals during chorus on bleak before this thread but now i know i appreciate the song every bit as much.
fair judgement is great the way it is. I didnt know that steven wilson did the vocals during chorus on bleak before this thread but now i know i appreciate the song every bit as much.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
I don't know where its coincidence or not, but it seems to me to be a case where the more SW apparently becomes involved in an Opeth song, the more it either wanders, experiments or is generally incohesive.
I'll list a few examples. Outro to 'The Leper Affinity' where the piano just kind of drones on, without much relevance to the rest of the song content... its very empty and haunting sure, but you do tend to think 'ok is he gonna finish playing 1 note per 30 seconds now?'. This resembles the start of 'A Fair Judgement'... talk about drawn-out. Alot of his parts are really unnecessary in my opinion and don't add much to the music apart from extra length and monotony. Another one that really irks me is the acoustic part in 'Master's Apprentice'. It's trademark PT stuff there... strumming, bass doing its own lil rhythmic thing, with harmonized singing... and it drones on and seemingly never ends.
The parts I've pointed out are ones I don't normally associate with Opeth, or at least not with pre-SW Opeth. I'm not shifting the weight of my accusation here entirely on him, but I certainly can't recall many parts on previous Opeth albums where I've been on the verge of thinking 'ok, can we move on now?'.
I respect the band as artists, and in the past they have always been able to grasp my attention and hold it breathlessly even through parts that loop for crazy amounts of time (ie start of 'The Moor'). With Wilson and these new rushed schedules, that just isn't there anymore. I don't know whether its his influence rubbing off on the band, or whether Mikael is actually going towards this songwriting approach or if presumably the rushed production schedules are to blame. I just know that the most recent effort, Deliverance feels extremely drawn-out and almost like they keep the songs going over 10 minutes out of necessity... to fuel that cliche about them and their song sizes and their acoustic/heavy dynamic.
I'll list a few examples. Outro to 'The Leper Affinity' where the piano just kind of drones on, without much relevance to the rest of the song content... its very empty and haunting sure, but you do tend to think 'ok is he gonna finish playing 1 note per 30 seconds now?'. This resembles the start of 'A Fair Judgement'... talk about drawn-out. Alot of his parts are really unnecessary in my opinion and don't add much to the music apart from extra length and monotony. Another one that really irks me is the acoustic part in 'Master's Apprentice'. It's trademark PT stuff there... strumming, bass doing its own lil rhythmic thing, with harmonized singing... and it drones on and seemingly never ends.
The parts I've pointed out are ones I don't normally associate with Opeth, or at least not with pre-SW Opeth. I'm not shifting the weight of my accusation here entirely on him, but I certainly can't recall many parts on previous Opeth albums where I've been on the verge of thinking 'ok, can we move on now?'.
I respect the band as artists, and in the past they have always been able to grasp my attention and hold it breathlessly even through parts that loop for crazy amounts of time (ie start of 'The Moor'). With Wilson and these new rushed schedules, that just isn't there anymore. I don't know whether its his influence rubbing off on the band, or whether Mikael is actually going towards this songwriting approach or if presumably the rushed production schedules are to blame. I just know that the most recent effort, Deliverance feels extremely drawn-out and almost like they keep the songs going over 10 minutes out of necessity... to fuel that cliche about them and their song sizes and their acoustic/heavy dynamic.
Land Of Grey And Pink
Remember The Future
Well moonlapse, i think youre discrediting Mikael's say in his own band a bit here. Whos to say that Mikael didnt suggest a long piano part in that song or not? And even if he didnt...if HE didnt think it was good or necessary, he wouldnt have kept it that way.
I also dont agree with your opinion that Steven Wilson has made Opeth's songs meander and lose direction....i think its been the opposite if anything. The parts are longer, but theyre focused. For instance...take Black Rose Immortal....a great song, with tons of highlights...but its really just 20 riffs stuck to eachother. In my opinion its basically the same concept as what youre saying, just with a slight change. So it really comes down to preferance. I myself am a big fan of Steven Wilson's songs which are 15 minutes of vertually the same idea....i dont need it to jump around as long as what the song is doing...is good to me. It just seems to me that your preferance is to need change and variance all the time. I could be wrong, but it seems thats what youre getting at.
I also dont agree with your opinion that Steven Wilson has made Opeth's songs meander and lose direction....i think its been the opposite if anything. The parts are longer, but theyre focused. For instance...take Black Rose Immortal....a great song, with tons of highlights...but its really just 20 riffs stuck to eachother. In my opinion its basically the same concept as what youre saying, just with a slight change. So it really comes down to preferance. I myself am a big fan of Steven Wilson's songs which are 15 minutes of vertually the same idea....i dont need it to jump around as long as what the song is doing...is good to me. It just seems to me that your preferance is to need change and variance all the time. I could be wrong, but it seems thats what youre getting at.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Well it's not really what I want as opposed to having come to expect it from Opeth. I'm saying that ability they had to hold my attention during long spun-out sections of their songs is now gone. Even though the band allegedly never listen to fans, I would still PREFFER at the very least that they go without SW for one more album so that we can see Opeth going their own way and possibly regain that, im my opinion, lost identity.
You're definately right about the riff collage that is called 'Black Rose Immortal'. It wanders all over the place and has no tight structure whatsoever. The problem is that in recent times the band has come to combat problems like that by instead of having 5 riffs in the space of 3 minutes, they'll just loop one for that time and then it will recur later on in the song. The songs may be more focused now, but they're alot more monotonous to me.
You're definately right about the riff collage that is called 'Black Rose Immortal'. It wanders all over the place and has no tight structure whatsoever. The problem is that in recent times the band has come to combat problems like that by instead of having 5 riffs in the space of 3 minutes, they'll just loop one for that time and then it will recur later on in the song. The songs may be more focused now, but they're alot more monotonous to me.
Land Of Grey And Pink
Remember The Future
Moonlapse said:
Well that seems to be a writing problem, not a production problem. Mikael's new style of writing is what you dont like then, i dont see how it has much to do with Steven at all. Steven would give suggestions, but like i said earlier...what goes on the album...is what Mikael likes. keep that in mind. In any case...i like old and new opeth...both for what they are...i have no problem with either era.
Steven Wilson: excellent producer, clever and talented musician, VERY cohesive song-writer, solid vocalist.
I have no problems with SW adding to Opeth albums (within reason), because I know that what he adds comes under the approval of Mike. If you disagree that Wilson is a good producer, a good vocalist, or that he's not a very good musician, you really would have trouble convincing me he makes incohesive songs. If he can do anything well, it is structuring songs. In Absentia is one of the best discs I've listened to in a long time and, though I've read some people claiming that the cd does not flow to well, it's an album that just makes sense beginning to end. I think that he can add a lot to Opeth via his producing and I'm glad that he has produced BWP, D1, & D2. Bleak wouldn't be the same song without his nice soloing touch, The Leper Affinity isn't the same without the outro, and all the little SW touches through all these albums have made them more enjoyable to me. Plus, without him, we wouldn't be able to have awesome telephone-sounding vocals, RIGHT MIKAEL!! But seriously, Wilson is a great producer, and I'm glad he's producing their next album.
I have no problems with SW adding to Opeth albums (within reason), because I know that what he adds comes under the approval of Mike. If you disagree that Wilson is a good producer, a good vocalist, or that he's not a very good musician, you really would have trouble convincing me he makes incohesive songs. If he can do anything well, it is structuring songs. In Absentia is one of the best discs I've listened to in a long time and, though I've read some people claiming that the cd does not flow to well, it's an album that just makes sense beginning to end. I think that he can add a lot to Opeth via his producing and I'm glad that he has produced BWP, D1, & D2. Bleak wouldn't be the same song without his nice soloing touch, The Leper Affinity isn't the same without the outro, and all the little SW touches through all these albums have made them more enjoyable to me. Plus, without him, we wouldn't be able to have awesome telephone-sounding vocals, RIGHT MIKAEL!! But seriously, Wilson is a great producer, and I'm glad he's producing their next album.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Start > Programs > Cool Edit Pro 2
*program opens*
*hit record button and babble random shit into the microphone; hit the stop button*
Effects > Filters > FFT Filter
*select telephone*
Man if SW can work that out, he's GOTTA be a genius.
*program opens*
*hit record button and babble random shit into the microphone; hit the stop button*
Effects > Filters > FFT Filter
*select telephone*
Man if SW can work that out, he's GOTTA be a genius.
Nuk3m
AKA Porn-Fingers
BUWAHAHA owned, Moonlaspe has got a good point that Opeth should go their OWN way > it was all very good and well to realease a soft album like damnation but lets go back to still life days where the band seemed to be at its highest point, if i wanted to listen to porcupive tree i would put their music on but i want to hear opeth do some black metal and not some wanker talking about sophistication and whinning on the next album and calling them good backing vocals
Land Of Grey And Pink
Remember The Future
Hes not a genius for clicking the "telephone" effect option. Hes a genius for the songs he has written, the same way i feel mikael is also a genius for the songs he has written. i still feel steven has brought nothing but good elements to Opeth's music.
Once again for those having trouble with this concept....Steven is there because Mikael asked him to be. Mikael approves all material going on the album. I dont know how Opeth could go anymore "their own way". I guess getting a mindless producer who doesnt have any opinion or input on the material and who just pushes or pulls the fader levers all day? :Smug:
Nukem...dont be stupid...theres enough mediocre black and death metal bands in the scene...Opeth needs to stay ahead of the pack, and they will do so by being the band they want to be, not the extreme metal hodgepodge you want them to be. Besides, Opeth sounds nothing like Porcupine tree, and vice verse, and that wont change just because Steven produces their album.
And for the record...Mikael really likes that "telephone" voice effect.
Once again for those having trouble with this concept....Steven is there because Mikael asked him to be. Mikael approves all material going on the album. I dont know how Opeth could go anymore "their own way". I guess getting a mindless producer who doesnt have any opinion or input on the material and who just pushes or pulls the fader levers all day? :Smug:
Nukem...dont be stupid...theres enough mediocre black and death metal bands in the scene...Opeth needs to stay ahead of the pack, and they will do so by being the band they want to be, not the extreme metal hodgepodge you want them to be. Besides, Opeth sounds nothing like Porcupine tree, and vice verse, and that wont change just because Steven produces their album.
And for the record...Mikael really likes that "telephone" voice effect.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
And I'm sure Mikael is quite capable of applying that effect himself, or any producer they might have for any matter.
I understand that SW is there under the band's explicit desires, it seems logical enough doesn't it? Otherwise they wouldn't have had him on to create 3 albums with them, and now come back for a 4th. But who said I had to approve? Don't get me wrong, I don't have trouble digesting any of these concepts.. the part where we diverge is at 'SW is a brilliant songwriter/musician/father/secret lover/gay porn star' etc. etc.
I have never had a love for his music in PT, nor do I have any love for the man, especially after seeing the Opeth documentary. Actually, I think it's safe to say that I hate him after seeing it. I can feel elitism pouring out of every crevice of his sweaty adolescent-like nerdy body. He, to me, is the epitome of those loner musical wankers who categorize and stereotype to a whim just because something doesn't fit their taste in music. Don't you love the constant undertones of metal-dissing whenever he is speaking? I sure do *cock-in-cheek*.
All he has done is apply production tricks to their music, and somehow, even with the indirect role of Producer has managed to make Opeth's music prone to sustaining the level of monotony in his. Obviously the guys in the band idolize him, and would hardly ever reject a suggestion by him as he is the musical god of the group... I mean hey, he even has his own posse of followers on Opeth's official forum, now hey that's some serious respect he must command over people. I honestly don't think Mike would be able to look SW in the eye and tell him 'man, that idea was fucking shit' even if he were to mean it.
It's his underlying INFLUENCE on the band I don't approve of. Obviously the band does, so who am I to speak? Well, its a forum and forums are for discussion so I am voicing my opinion, regardless of however little the band may care.
I understand that SW is there under the band's explicit desires, it seems logical enough doesn't it? Otherwise they wouldn't have had him on to create 3 albums with them, and now come back for a 4th. But who said I had to approve? Don't get me wrong, I don't have trouble digesting any of these concepts.. the part where we diverge is at 'SW is a brilliant songwriter/musician/father/secret lover/gay porn star' etc. etc.
I have never had a love for his music in PT, nor do I have any love for the man, especially after seeing the Opeth documentary. Actually, I think it's safe to say that I hate him after seeing it. I can feel elitism pouring out of every crevice of his sweaty adolescent-like nerdy body. He, to me, is the epitome of those loner musical wankers who categorize and stereotype to a whim just because something doesn't fit their taste in music. Don't you love the constant undertones of metal-dissing whenever he is speaking? I sure do *cock-in-cheek*.
All he has done is apply production tricks to their music, and somehow, even with the indirect role of Producer has managed to make Opeth's music prone to sustaining the level of monotony in his. Obviously the guys in the band idolize him, and would hardly ever reject a suggestion by him as he is the musical god of the group... I mean hey, he even has his own posse of followers on Opeth's official forum, now hey that's some serious respect he must command over people. I honestly don't think Mike would be able to look SW in the eye and tell him 'man, that idea was fucking shit' even if he were to mean it.
It's his underlying INFLUENCE on the band I don't approve of. Obviously the band does, so who am I to speak? Well, its a forum and forums are for discussion so I am voicing my opinion, regardless of however little the band may care.
L0bster
OneTwo!
I really hope Per WIberg will join in and Steven Wilson will stick to producing, and maybe do some simple backing vox, like @ the end of Drapery Falls.
Dark Hunter
Member
Moonlapse said:
lol that's what I was thinking a few minutes ago...
I love Opeth with Steven Wilson. I mean, the 3 last album have the best production they could have... and Wilson did a different job every time
