Are humans inherently evil?

[ivry91]

Rape will always be evil in my eyes.

I agree with you personall, allthough 3000+ years back and during the Medieval era aswell though less Rape was something that would happend often times without anyone considering it evil. as for murder at time it was considerd evil sometimes not. thouh even today people try to justify murder sometimes.

 

[razoredge]

and you know about how people felt about things 3000 years ago because ? you were there and saw all the little girls running around afterward singing and dancing "horray, I just got raped, it was the time of my life"?

 

[Einherjar86]

Myself einherjar, I would call that mob mentality which indicates lack of independent thought or any thought at all. It also shows an extreme of selfishness. Naturally the beneficiary would claim entitlement, its the oldest excuse known to man, however I dont believe the reciever of such an act as rape would consider it a mutual agreement. thereby it could very easily be considered the premise on which evil is based. As for war times, obviously casualities of a battle can not be considered murder, but anything after the war could be. I would have to say that most likely, if "rape and pillage" could be chased all the way back to its rootes, one would find its all been a matter of vengence since, combined with the selfish thing.

I believe that mob mentality does indeed have something to do with it. I also believe that selfishness is a huge part of it. However, I don't equate selfishness with "evil." Of course the receiver doesn't consider the act of rape a "mutual agreement;" but the aggressor doesn't care, because he feels that he is greater/more important than the one he is raping. This can't be construed as "evil." It was simply that invading tribesman's world view. He saw himself as the dominant being, deserving of this "prize." They saw rape as a means of defining what now belonged to them.

Now, let's not say that Einherjar condones rape, because I don't. But I don't think it's fair to jump to conclusions and immediately call things like rape and murder evil. Sometimes, after raping someone, a tribesman might take her for his wife. He might consider the act of raping her as marking his territory.

and you know about how people felt about things 3000 years ago because ? you were there and saw all the little girls running around afterward singing and dancing "horray, I just got raped, it was the time of my life"?

That explains why crime rates were lower.

 

[Bulldozer]

i would say in most cases, it's not about "evil", it's just that people don't care enough.

 

[monoxide_child]

yes humans are inherently evil, everyone wears a mask to fit into society. Everyone has the desire to do things that are illegal/immoral, they just hide their desires to fit into society and not go to jail. When you see serial killers and serial rapists, these people aren't really "inhuman", they're just the same as everyone else, it's just that their masks have slipped off.

 

[razoredge]

yes humans are inherently evil, everyone wears a mask to fit into society. Everyone has the desire to do things that are illegal/immoral, they just hide their desires to fit into society and not go to jail. When you see serial killers and serial rapists, these people aren't really "inhuman", they're just the same as everyone else, it's just that their masks have slipped off.

speaking only for yourself of course

 

[razoredge]

I believe that mob mentality does indeed have something to do with it. I also believe that selfishness is a huge part of it. However, I don't equate selfishness with "evil." Of course the receiver doesn't consider the act of rape a "mutual agreement;" but the aggressor doesn't care, because he feels that he is greater/more important than the one he is raping. This can't be construed as "evil." It was simply that invading tribesman's world view. He saw himself as the dominant being, deserving of this "prize." They saw rape as a means of defining what now belonged to them.

You realize you are only looking at this from a one sided point of view, I hope. A bystander as we are in this example needs to have the ability to stand back and see the recieving end and make a clear decision between whats wrong and right... good vs evil, greed vs compassion. You are speaking as if the woman in this example is a inanimate object or even perhaps indicating that though they are not now they once were.

 

[Vimana]

That explains why crime rates were lower.

Only because there were less crimes. What was riding way faster than everyone on your horse back then? Being in a hurry.

To make a point about legalization of drugs. I don't see why the law cares if one is smoking pot if they don't care if they binge drink or run around in a place filled with rusty sharp objects.

 

[monoxide_child]

speaking only for yourself of course

i'm not saying that eveyone has the desire to kill and/or rape, i'm saying that humans are inheirently "rule breakers" because, if you'd studied psychology, then you'd know that "you wouldn't have to amke a rule against something if no one had the inclination to break that rule to begin with"

"honor thy mother and father" is a rule that was necassary because the people that breed are sometimes people that don't deserve "honor"

stealing and killing people are against the law because there are people that have the inclination to do those things

Jewish people are not allowed to eat non-Kosher food, because, guess what? Non-Kosher food is delicious!

it's NOT illegal to eat Xerox toner, because no one would ever want to do it (unless they were severely intoxicated and/or suicidal)

this is what i meant when i said "yes humans are evil"

 

[Einherjar86]

You realize you are only looking at this from a one sided point of view, I hope. A bystander as we are in this example needs to have the ability to stand back and see the recieving end and make a clear decision between whats wrong and right... good vs evil, greed vs compassion. You are speaking as if the woman in this example is a inanimate object or even perhaps indicating that though they are not now they once were.

I took the woman into consideration, and specifically stated that she would object to the man's advances (Of course the receiver doesn't consider the act of rape a "mutual agreement;"-my exact words). I only said that according to the aggressor, she matters little. Of course she's going to think it's wrong; but that doesn't matter to the man who believes that he's entitled to her. You can't look at good and evil from a universal norm. To the woman, what the man is doing is evil. To the man, he's not evil; he's simply asserting his power over what he thinks is his. I'm not saying I agree with it; I'm saying that according to his cultural world-view, he's not evil.

 

[razoredge]

I know you are not agreeing with it but anyone doing something wrong can justify it from their side, which in reality is another evil trait. Some cultures were quite evil, still are under the shield and behind the spin, self servitude screw all else, its right for ME!

which

monoxide child was my point, we are not all like that. I never was, but in recent years I could easily be seen as evil if I were to seek my just vengence.

einherjar - have you ever considered the act of rape, I mean thought about it, not thought about doing it, just pictureing the scenerio, sounds: 1- painful, 2- not very erotic. I can't imagine anyone wanting "to take" an unwilling party, hell I can even get interested if the other is not responding properly. Rape is some bizarre shit in my mind, gotta be something wrong inside there somewhere.

 

[Einherjar86]

People view sexuality in many different ways. What doesn't turn you on might turn someone else on. And rape isn't about sexual stimulation and pleasure; it's about power.

Old world/ancient values and morals are much more individualistic than those that arose during the era of Christianity, especially the Medieval times (which is odd, considering the amount of rape and slaughter that took place during the Crusades). It was only after the Crusades, during the Renaissance, that people began to take a more individualistic approach to Christianity. It's interesting to think about why we believe certain things to be "evil."

 

[razoredge]

it seems simple to me, anything done to another against their will would be wrong/bad/evil

while you say rape is about power, which it is, it also stimulates those wackos that do it, else they wouldnt be able to do it, its a sickness and should result in public castration... so as said individual could "feel the power" lesson learned and would give others something to think about...

 

[PhantoMPhones]

Evil is but a concept that changes with perspective. Humans are neither good nor evil. Humans are a terrible waste of matter and energy. Death to humans I always say. Better to be safe right?

 

[razoredge]

saddest part of the whole thing is in the end all the modern nonsense means nothing, because death is inevitable. There are no gains from the pointless shrewd behavior, dust in the wind

 

[PhantoMPhones]

Unfortunately many people neither recognize nor care about that. To them it gives them all the more reason to conduct their lives in the manner they do. Theres no accountability to a future you won't be a part of right? Exploit exploit exploit, I dont know why that seems to be a default for so many... To each his own I guess... Too bad that only applies to you if you are part of the popular vote/mob.

 

[monoxide_child]

evilness is a totally contextual concept, what would be considerd extremely evil in one country/era, could easily be the status quo in another

but humans are inheirantly "rule breakers" because "you wouldn't have to make a rule against doing something if no one had the inclination to break that rule to begin with"

 

[Blowtus]

it seems simple to me, anything done to another against their will would be wrong/bad/evil

So when I get issued a speeding fine, the policeman is evil? I'll be sure to let him know

 

[razoredge]

yes I believe speeding tickets are evil, up to a point. I like to ask them "whats the matter, no big crimes to fight today?" or sometimes "taking a bite out of crime today are you?"

good job at not getting the point however, you are an awesome philosopher

 

[PhantoMPhones]

People are only as civil as rules force them to be. With some exceptions, I would hope. But thats about as optimistic as I get about it.