Are humans inherently evil?

[Volve]

You are correct and I wont argue about early childhood development and environmental pressures. None the less I still feel people know of what they do, unless their mind doesnt work every waking moment.

This other thing you speak of is one of the prices for youthful rebellion, I have paid in my way... myself.

Yes, we are of couse always responsible for our own life. I can't blame God for all the wrong things I have done in my life. I think it sometimes would be very good til think that whatever I do wrong God will always be there to support me.

It's hard I think to be atheist sometimes. It would be so convenient to have someone to blame. :Smug:

 

[Blowtus]

It's hard I think to be atheist sometimes. It would be so convenient to have someone to blame. :Smug:

You're not trying hard enough.

 

[Volve]

lol

 

[razoredge]

Back in the 70's we had an black American comedian - Flip Wilson that made a satire joke about the excuse "da devil made me do it" it became a saying he used constantly, he had a comedy/variety show on network TV for awhile. I always enjoyed it as a kid but I have yet to see reruns to make a second evaluation.

 

[monoxide_child]

partially true, I still believe four leggers have alot going on we do not.

You are correct about our instincts to revert to natural instincts when it comes to protecting our territory. However laws prohibit this, must be more of that "intelligence" thing. At the same time we have truely sick individuals, which is a mutation, even glorified, protected by humans loss of natural selection, laws, and elimination of predators. AIDS and other viruses along with the automobile are humans only remaining checks and balances. We have denied the circle of life, so mutations abound.

so
you're basically saying that the "truly sick" individuals should be executed, (for natural selection purpouses) and that a random person (that isn't "truly sick") should have the "natural instinct" to carry out such an execution, like when the family of a rape victim goes out and kills the rapist

 

[Volve]

The anti-execution feelings are very strong over here. I don't know. Sometimes I think it would be very nice to just pop over to my father's house and pick up his rifle.

But, at the same time I enjoy the society's high protection of individuals. Even though they have done something wrong.

If I ones did something incredibly stupid I would run to the police for protection instantly. I guess prison probably couldn't grant me that kind of protection.

What I mean is I need to think of both sides. But if some guy raped me I might find it more convenient to kill the guy than having to meet him i court.

 

[monoxide_child]

But if some guy raped me I might find it more convenient to kill the guy than having to meet him i court.

i think most rape victims would agree with this

 

[razoredge]

so
you're basically saying that the "truly sick" individuals should be executed, (for natural selection purpouses) and that a random person (that isn't "truly sick") should have the "natural instinct" to carry out such an execution, like when the family of a rape victim goes out and kills the rapist

In that post you quoted for this responce I was refering to the idea that I believe in more early tribal times such individuals would have been culled one way or the other by their tribe. Most likely it was usually striking out on their own (a bannishment), which could indicate a level of compassion or feeling about being quick to judge or even having that right. Then Im sure some were stoned to death or whatever else.

This makes me think of the story of Kane and Abel but I no longer recall how that was dealt with, bannishment or shrugged off, I just dont recall.

I do feel such hynus criminals should be executed but simply to get rid of them and add some deterrent, something to think about, make an example of.

I believe most people have the natural instinct to take vengence on those who hurt them but are not allowed "to take the law into their own hands". Then many people dont have the ability "to pull the trigger" when the moment of reckoning comes. Which brings us to the "that would make me just like them" deliema. In some it could also be just plain 'ol pussy-ism, the thought of the horror of which they would have to live with.

The entire thing of dealing with criminals is baffeling when you look back through out history at how it was dealt with, then its not hard to see how we evolved into our current system of law. Not that Im saying its worth a shit or any improvement. I think we should have the balls to eliminate wack-jobs expediantly but when not caught in the act there is always that shadow of a doubt. Or in "vengence", say a father kills someone because they raped his daughter, how can we know he didnt do it because the guy broke his daughters heart or because he just didnt like him ?

Law is such a big mess because you are dealing with the human element and no one can really know, who did what and for what reason and walk away confident as a third party knowing they didnt have the wool pulled over thier eyes.

 

[Volve]

The Bannishment you're talking about we had here for some years. I think it was a church thing. Before that we had the consept of "blodhevn", translated to something like "blood revenge". I think it has to be i that order. Blodhevn was the before christianity thing. Bannishment was a punishment introduced by the church.

Execution as a deterrent has been proven to not work. Either people don't think they will be arrested, or they do things in anger. Deterring people won't work in those cases. Revenge is said to not give any relief to the victim.

In a way it wouldn't really be worth it if I had to stay many years in prison for shuting the guy. So it's kind of a big dicition to take.

Well, the law works at a level I guess. But theire are flaws. Like the joke we make over here about the american legal system. Everone is just looking for more money.

 

[razoredge]

In a sense, you are correct the revenue from fines and surcharges for petty crimes help to pay for the serious crimes the institutions makes no money from but the lawyers are doing great. Yes, most everything is all about the money. Im getting ready to step off the sidewalk and hit the law suit lottery... LOL

 

[monoxide_child]

This makes me think of the story of Kane and Abel but I no longer recall how that was dealt with, bannishment or shrugged off, I just dont recall.

the punishment was being seperated from those who would want to kill him, with some preachers saying that his punishment was being seperated from ALL HUMANS and that "cain's wife" was some sort of demon, and possibly "lilith", in many role-playing games, cain is either the "father of all vampires" or "the father of merfolk" (the idea being that cain's wife was some sort of fish and that the merfolk called "sirens" in the Oddyssey are "evil" bcause they somehow inheirited cain's "evilness")

 

[razoredge]

ah sorry, I dont believe that is anything as to how the story is written.

 

[Volve]

...and now they're gonna start the big "Gods intention" discussion. What a pitty he is not here to correct you.

 

[monoxide_child]

...and now they're gonna start the big "Gods intention" discussion. What a pitty he is not here to correct you.

God's intention was to seperate evil people from non-evil people, obiously, then the evil people drowned durring "Noah's flood"

 

[Volve]

So now we are all good people who has never done anything wrong.

 

[monoxide_child]

So now we are all good people who has never done anything wrong.

no
were still evil
we all still have the evilness that entered the species when Adam and Eve bit into the "forbidden fruit"
we have to make a choice between being good and being evil, cain's decendants were drowned in the flood because they chose evil, Sodom and Gomora (spell?) were destroyed by fire because those people chose to be evil, the Egyptians drowned when moses parted the red sea, because the Egyptians chose to be evil, but each individual person still has the choice of being good or evil

 

[Vimana]

I think most people are. It's just that laws keep it from coming out. If we were good then anarchy would be peaceful.

My definition of evil is conscious intentional unnecessary negative action towards another being (that actually matters).

And with no laws most people would be doing that left and right.

 

[Blowtus]

your definition needs some significant clarification of 'unnecessary' and 'being that actually matters' I think...

 

[Vimana]

Well those are pretty much subjective. Some would consider a cockroach a being that matters. But I don't. And some people would consider killing one because they don't like it to be necessary. I however do not think it is evil.

 

[10293847]

Simple question, are we?

I believe so. I make it no secret I despise many people in my life and people within my family, I would do something about it. Don't we all agree if if there were no laws or moral codes in this world, chaos will ensue because we as humans are incapable of good if there are no laws in place. Come on, if there were no laws in this world, would you steal a car or kill somebody you hate so much, commit some hate crimes maybe?

You just know someone would.

I do agree that without rules, certain people would take advantage. I don't think that all people would though. I think it's difficult to say exactly who would and wouldn't take advantage, but I think that certain people would uphold their own moral standards and not take advantage of others.