back cover of 'The Pale Haunt Departure' needed !

[NvmbrsDoom5]

I didn't notice a much heavier aspect to The Pale Haunt Departure, at least nothing heavier than something like Dawn Breaks (just about my favorite ND song).

I agree with you to a degree actually. And I think "The Pale Haunt Departure" and "Of Sculptured Ivy..." are our strongest and overall heaviest albums to date as well, so there you go.

 

[chupe666]

tee hee! yeah, i know Paul hates Torn. eh, Nora sounded good on it. probably could've done more with it as far as instrumental arrangements to make it a bit more interesting, but i disagree that it's the second worst song the band's ever done (or worst). i like that it was different from the other TWtFade tracks- it added a different aspect to the record and made it a more varied album as a whole- something i strove for at least. the lyrical concept was a good idea too.
i don't really consider before the wind really a ND song since Mark wrote/performed it- it was good paired alongside FELtF since it used the same chord progressions. a dvd release featuring Erik Kikke dancing to that track would be a most prized possession.

 

[Novembers Paul]

You're right, the instrumental track is not a ND song. Looking at it that way, Torn is at the bottom. LOL. Seriously though, it's nothing personal at all. After how many years, 3 full lengths and an EP worth of material, It's the only piece of yours I really dislike. I know i'm hard on that song. I'm not even sure I can pin point what I dislike about it. It's just one of those songs that really bothers me. Nora does sound good, and I think where the idea of the lyrics sounded good on paper, it didn't translate well. Honestly, I think that's my biggest problem with it, is none of the ideas fleshed out they way they could have. A lot of that CD was changed, and still being worked on so last minute (even while in the studio) and with time and budget, not as much time was given to some of the songs as they needed. I think maybe if it wasn't on "...Fade" and more time was given working it out, it would have been much better. I just hold songs like "Dark Fields for Brilliance" as one of our best ND songs, to have Torn on the same CD, (in my opinion) takes away from the solidness of that CD, and hurts the overall flow.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

I think "Torn" suffers from exactly what Paul said, lack of time and preparation to really make it sound fully like it should have. I can see why a fan would not see it that way because they only know what they've heard on the album and thats it. But I think if that song had been given more time and the parts were more properly worked out beforehand, it could have been really good. It's still not a bad song in my opinion. But it almost feels like the "demo" version to me. The drums on it seem very uninspired and I think again that was due to the last minute nature of that song being pieced together fully. I think a song like "Broken" is a much more fully realised composition of Eric's on that album, personally. But it's still cool that people really like "Torn", I don't knock that at all!

 

[Crenshaw]

I like "Torn" very much..Uh.

The only problem with "To Welcome The Fade" is the production. On one hand, it's very good, but I would really like to hear it with the punch and power of your latest effort - The Pale Haunt Departure.

Collapse of The Fallen Throe is a wonderful song btw. Been on repeat for like three days now.

 

[Dragon_Unearthed]

Wow, how did I miss this battle? Probably 'cause I was vacationing in Florida (warmth!) I have always liked "Torn", but I do understand why one might not like it. I find the song very captivating. Especially towards the end when Nora reappears. Plus, since I don't know any of the band members personally, I see how they look from pictures on the web, and how they carry themselves here on the forum, and I hear Paul on that song and find in mildly amusing to picture him as The Reaper...

 

[Novembers Paul]

You won't find it so amusing when I come for you.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Again I emphasize the fact that noone is saying here that it's a rotten song or bad songwriting. The issue Paul and I have with it is the way it was recorded, and what "could have been", so to speak. Nora's performance is great, as is Eric's and Paul's and the band in general. We are naturally going to see and hear things differently than the listeners will, because it's our creation. To sum it up for me, if "Torn" had been more properly rehearsed and prepared and laid out before we got into the studio, it might have turned out to be a much more favorable song amongst the bandmembers. And furthermore, it's a song that feels slightly out of place on that album as a whole...an album which I now consider to be somewhat disjointed at times and lacking proper flow, in retrospect. But it's this kind of thing that we learn from as a band and endeavor to do better next time. Needless to say, as much as some critics and people out there try to analyze and criticise us, noone will ever be as critical about Novembers Doom as we are about ourselves and our music.

 

[Dragon_Unearthed]

You won't find it so amusing when I come for you.

I just shaved my head, so I might be able to elude you for a few more days!

 

[Septembers Marc]

Wow, I never would've thought that you guys looked upon "Torn" this way. I think it's a nice song to kinda sing-along to and Eric sings very good. In this song there are 3 different voices and spheres, the fragile female, the tender male and the somber heavy grunt. Great!!!! And I like the melody as well.

In retrospect I agree with Larry that the album lacks the kind of flow that TPHD has. But that's an opinion formed after comparing your two latest albums. I think you should be glad it's not the other way round.

 

[Novembers Paul]

I guess some people just don't understand the point here. If you like it as it is, imagine how good it could have been if the proper time was spent on it to flesh it out, and make it "better." Put it this way, some of this song was still being arranged and changed in the studio, becaue no one was sure what to do with it. I sang that song only once, the time I recorded it, and that was it. It was one of the last songs written, and we entered the studio not totally prepared, and unfortunatly Torn is one of the songs that suffered for it. Everyone's performance was fine on the song, that's not the arguement. As Larry said, we are our own worst critics, and we like to allow the proper time for a song to flesh out, and this os one of those songs that didn't get that time.

They're not all great when we first write them, they take time to evolve and grow into something we're happy with, and other then Eric (and maybe not even him) we all just wish there was more time to work on this one, as well as some other songs on Fade. I can tell you, if we had spent more time on that CD, it would have been different in the end, an I bet you would have liked it better.

 

[chupe666]

i'll agree with that notion- had we had as much studio time to develop things as we did on The Knowing (and had as much stuff prepared ahead of time like that record), i agree it probably would've turned out different.
i fully admit i didn't put enough time into the band at that point in history- i was travelling a lot to see my gf (now wife) & living 1.5 hrs from work in my sister's house so everything was pretty much up in the air in my life- and that's just me. Paul & Arline were having a baby, Larry & Joe were busy with lots, there was no solid bassist- everything was pretty much all over the place at that time, & the more i think about it, the more i think the record reflects that. you guys seem in a much more solid place now, which is good.

 

[Septembers Marc]

Oh, I do understand your point. I was just a bit suprised, that's all. Remember that us fans weren't there in the studio when this song was recorded nor were we around to witness everyone's personal going-on's at the time.

We listened to the album that first time as a whole cohesive piece without experiencing the writing process and all. To my opninion as a listener the song did not fall out of the boat, that's just what I wanted to share with you.

Did you flesh out all the songs for TPHD? As a whole, the album sure sounds more balanced than it's predecessor.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

The songs on TPHD were fleshed out much much more before going into the studio. There was very little "experimenting" going on in the studio, because we'd already worked out most of it, including keyboards and various sound effects, etc. One thing that has always been a trait of this band is that we've recorded albums where there were certain songs that would be nearly impossible to replicate live on stage....with TPHD, we consciously set out to record an album where all eight songs can be performed live and be done justice in the same way as on record. The only song that might be tricky to pull off live would of course be "Through a Childs Eyes" and even that isn't completely out of the question.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Also, I'd like to add, I think we've always been a much heavier and more aggressive band live than on our albums. TPHD is the first disc that comes close to capturing that, I think.

 

[Novembers Paul]

Eric is correct, all of us were all over the place during Fade. It's still a great CD, but Eric is right, had we all put as much time into it as The Knowing, it would, in our eyes anyway, be a better CD. Lot's a new experiences for all of us during that time, and I for one learned a great deal, so I have no regrets.