Barack Obama - awesome status confirmed

[Metaltastic]

Also, I just re-read your OP...did he actually say that he wants a free market that's fair? Fair to whom? A free market is not "fair", it is "free."

Hmm, good point - I'm not sure on the semantics of the term "free market," but I think I explained pretty well in post 4 on my feelings on the morality of a free market!

And I'll take a Heine light, please

 

[aberration]

Ewwww...Heine? I'll bring you back something good, brother.

 

[ahjteam]

I'll respectfully disagree. I'm very happy to have a government run health care system in my country..... I wouldn't trust something that important to private corporations whose motivation is profit.

+1, works splendidly here too.

 

[ahjteam]

Hmm, good point - I'm not sure on the semantics of the term "free market," but I think I explained pretty well in post 4 on my feelings on the morality of a free market!

And I'll take a Heine light, please

Free market = no monopolies/cartels

In Finland we have quite a few monopolies/cartels... Alko (distribution and selling alcohol), RAY (gambling), VR (railroads), Teosto (performance rights) and the recycleable bottle system (can't remember the company) for example

An example of non-free market would be that you would not be allowed to publish music if you weren't part of EMI, Warner, Universal or Sony-BMG

 

[Metaltastic]

Free market = no monopolies/cartells

Umm, no, that I'm pretty certain of, cuz a free market means EVERYTHING is fair game, including monopolies/cartels/trusts (AKA consolidation of power)

 

[ahjteam]

Oh, I've misunderstood it for a long time them, fuckin languagebarriers... But if being realistic, I think there will never be a free market in the US, because of taxes and enviromental regulations alone. That would need anarchy.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

All I have to say is:

Abortion = Good.

The problem with life is we CAN'T all get along. It's not in the cards. Whatevs!

 

[MarkG]

Obama is one of the most incredible public speakers of our time.

I personally don't give a flying fuck about speakers though, I want someone who takes appropriate actions. Don't know yet if Obama fits into that category

 

[Aaron Smith]

I'll respectfully disagree. I'm very happy to have a government run health care system in my country..... I wouldn't trust something that important to private corporations whose motivation is profit.

I agree with you that trusting private corporations alone to handle health care isn't the answer either. I've been really inspired in the last year by the sheer common sense that Ron Paul offers, and his take on health care goes something like this:

As a medical doctor, I’ve seen first-hand how bureaucratic red tape interferes with the doctor-patient relationship and drives costs higher. The current system of third-party payers takes decision-making away from doctors, leaving patients feeling rushed and worsening the quality of care. Yet health insurance premiums and drug costs keep rising. Clearly a new approach is needed. Congress needs to craft innovative legislation that makes health care more affordable without raising taxes or increasing the deficit. It also needs to repeal bad laws that keep health care costs higher than necessary.

We should remember that HMOs did not arise because of free-market demand, but rather because of government mandates. The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses – but not individuals – to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

While many in Congress are happy to criticize HMOs today, the public never hears how the present system was imposed upon the American people by federal law. As usual, government intervention in the private market failed to deliver the promised benefits and caused unintended consequences, but Congress never blames itself for the problems created by bad laws. Instead, we are told more government – in the form of “universal coverage” – is the answer. But government already is involved in roughly two-thirds of all health care spending, through Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs.

For decades, the U.S. healthcare system was the envy of the entire world. Not coincidentally, there was far less government involvement in medicine during this time. America had the finest doctors and hospitals, patients enjoyed high-quality, affordable medical care, and thousands of private charities provided health services for the poor. Doctors focused on treating patients, without the red tape and threat of lawsuits that plague the profession today. Most Americans paid cash for basic services, and had insurance only for major illnesses and accidents. This meant both doctors and patients had an incentive to keep costs down, as the patient was directly responsible for payment, rather than an HMO or government program.

The lesson is clear: when government and other third parties get involved, health care costs spiral. The answer is not a system of outright socialized medicine, but rather a system that encourages everyone – doctors, hospitals, patients, and drug companies – to keep costs down. As long as “somebody else” is paying the bill, the bill will be too high.

 

[Joematthews]

The lesson is clear: when government and other third parties get involved, health care costs spiral

I don't agree with that... America has health care spending of 15% of its GDP. Countries with a much greater government involvment in health care, like singapore which is ranked way higher than the US in health care quality, have lower spending. Singapore's health care spending amounts to 3% of its GDP. America's spending is higher than that of any UN country.

For decades, the U.S. healthcare system was the envy of the entire world.

Thats the first time I've ever heard that

Joe

 

[Damphire]

'll respectfully disagree. I'm very happy to have a government run health care system in my country..... I wouldn't trust something that important to private corporations whose motivation is profit.

+1 . Why is everybody in The States so afraid of anything that looks like socialism?

For decades, the U.S. healthcare system was the envy of the entire world.

Quoting Stone Cold Steve Austin: What?

I just hope Obama can handle the economics part well because... and I say this respectfully ... US is shitting all over the world. You guys screw up and the little countries take the hit big time.

I'm just mad because a lot of my loved ones got fired due to the crisis :-(

 

[GarethSE]

I don't know shit about politics and I don't really try to pretend that I do, but personally, I'd rather have an amazing public speaker with good intentions that doesn't take much action on anything than a shit public speaker with shit intentions that did stuff whether his country liked it or not.

Part of the way the USA is going to be reborn from the ashes of the Bush administration is earning back some respect from other countries, and Obama has sure as hell earnt my fucking respect. I'm far more willing to be more tolerant towards Americans now (as in, your atypical ignorant, arrogant, uneducated fuckhead who can't even point to iraq on a fucking map) because of the fact that your country was sensible enough to vote in a man with good intentions, this shows that the rest of the country has good intentions too, and compared to Bush, good intentions are a damn good start.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

The financial mess is not purely on the shoulders of the USA. Let's get that out in the open. Everybody bares some responsibility for what happesn to them, so let's choose our wording a bit wiser perhaps?

Next, the abortion debate contains WAY too many grey areas for me to even consider debating over it, therefore I won't.

I am not one of those people who wants to see Barry fail. I am a Republican and do not identify with his values or policies, but I am not a "typical" Republican. I was brought up Catholic, I don't practice at all right now, I love thrash metal, I smoke pot, and I'm not a tight ass.

Whether Obama's intentions are good or not, or whether he is simply appeasing people, I don't trust the man. He is charismatic yes...and an EXCELLENT speaker, but honestly that means squat to me. I would have to disagree with the speaker above me. I would rather have a president who is a crap public speaker that makes the right decisions and produces results, than a great public speaker who is nothing but hot air. It's still too early to tell with Barry, but I'm not particularly hopeful.

I agree that certain aspects of the healthcare system would benefit from some reforming. I do like having my private policy. I choose my physicians whom I've become very comfortable with and wouldn't want to change who I see. Obama claims that we will still be able to keep our policies, visit the same physicians, etc. I'll believe it when I see it!

Lastly, foreign policy to me was one of, if not the most, important aspects for me when it came to voting. It really is a sad state of affairs nowadays when it comes to the tension in the middle east and American opinions towards it. Many Americans are becoming apologetic and forgot what happened to us on 9/11. They believe that Islamo-facism is a farce and they we couldn't POSSIBLY be attacked again. They believe Israel are warmongers and many sympathize with the Hamas run Gaza strip. Israel has to be the most hated spec of land in this world. They are surrounded by enemies, yet continue to prosper, survive, and fight for their way of life. I really respect this and wish others would more often. The great divide between Palestinians and Israelis CAN be resolved, but it's a two way street. If Jews, Muslims, and Christians can live in peace within Israel, why can't they get along as neighbors?

I do disagree with certain aspects of how we handled the situation in Iraq. I do, however, think that we would have invaded regardless at some point had it not been for the "faulty" information regarding WMDs. I WILL give Obama credit for committing more troops to Afghanistan. We sure as hell need them. BUT, I do really despise his willingness to sit down and have tea/cookies with the president of Iran...One of the most blatant anti-semites out there who would love to see Israel decimated.

Phew, rant over. Got a bit off track there, but you all can catch my drift. I like results when it comes to the leader of our country. Anyone can be a great speaker and win over the hearts of the American people.

-Joe

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I like Barack Obama!

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I just read over my post and noticed I got a bit off topic and unfocused lol. It happens when I get fired up, so apologies.

I would recommend that you guys check out this book, "Liberty and Tyranny."

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1416562850/ref=s9_sims_gw_s0_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0PKAEGM1AM7M1CEA2TNR&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846[/ame]

I haven't read it yet, but it has gotten great reviews and is currently #1 on the NY Times best seller list. It supposedly gives a great perspective on conervative values...i.e. much better than what the liberal media or our current poor excuse for a party gives us! I plan on picking it up soon.

-Joe

 

[Uladyne]

Part of the way the USA is going to be reborn from the ashes of the Bush administration is earning back some respect from other countries, and Obama has sure as hell earnt my fucking respect. I'm far more willing to be more tolerant towards Americans now (as in, your atypical ignorant, arrogant, uneducated fuckhead who can't even point to iraq on a fucking map) because of the fact that your country was sensible enough to vote in a man with good intentions, this shows that the rest of the country has good intentions too, and compared to Bush, good intentions are a damn good start.

I was going to say something along those lines, but you beat me to it. +1,000

Everybody is so quick to write off Obama as a bag of hot air, but what really can be expected of a president this early in his first term? If you disagree with how he's doing things, that's cool, everybody can do anything better than anyone else. He got handed a shit sandwich and to me he seems to be handling things pretty fucking well. It reminds me of the old guitarist joke: Q: How many guitarists does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: Three. One to screw it in and two to stand around and say how they would have done it better.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I was going to say something along those lines, but you beat me to it. +1,000

Everybody is so quick to write off Obama as a bag of hot air, but what really can be expected of a president this early in his first term? If you disagree with how he's doing things, that's cool, everybody can do anything better than anyone else. He got handed a shit sandwich and to me he seems to be handling things pretty fucking well. It reminds me of the old guitarist joke: Q: How many guitarists does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: Three. One to screw it in and two to stand around and say how they would have done it better.

It's not so much about how he handles things...again, too early to tell. I disagree with the fundamental aspects of many of his proposed policies. I probably can't do better as I'm not qualified to be the president, but I can voice my opinion as a citizen of his proposed policies, values, etc.

-Joe

 

[Uladyne]

I agree that certain aspects of the healthcare system would benefit from some reforming. I do like having my private policy. I choose my physicians whom I've become very comfortable with and wouldn't want to change who I see.

Must be nice to have the option of seeing a doctor when you need to, without worrying about going without groceries or gas because of the bill you have to pay for a half hour visit.

BUT, I do really despise his willingness to sit down and have tea/cookies with the president of Iran...

Because war would work so much better?

 

[Uladyne]

It's not so much about how he handles things...again, too early to tell. I disagree with the fundamental aspects of many of his proposed policies. I probably can't do better as I'm not qualified to be the president, but I can voice my opinion as a citizen of his proposed policies, values, etc.

-Joe

I wasn't trying to imply that any person's one way of doing things is right and everyone else's wrong, just that 10 different people will have 10 different ways of doing something, and when 1 person is appointed to do it, 9 people are going to be in dissagreement. No matter who is in there trying to fix things, theres going to be a shitload of people pissed and worried that things are gonna get fucked. That's all.

 

[egan.]

I've been really inspired in the last year by the sheer common sense that Ron Paul offers, and his take on health care ...

Aaron, the critical point that I think you are missing in the Ron Paul quote is that the failures of our for profit health care system already necessitated action 35 years ago.
If anything, it's American hubris that leads to the assumption that we totally had it right the first time. Nixon may have made new problems with HMO's but that doesn't negate the fact that there were issues in the first place.
As a pragmatist I think we should look to all of the successful systems in the world right now (and as it turns out they are all state controlled) and try to culminate a plan that applies their strengths and avoids their flaws. If you have an example of a strong non-social system in existence now I'd be curious to hear about it.

Regarding economics, I do agree that government regulations "bog down" industry. However I think that history has shown this to be a necessary evil.
You said that "Obama and his crew know(ing) very little about ecomonics and sound money" and frankly I'm not even sure how to respond to this. It is one thing to disagree with them but I think questioning their knowledge of the subject unless you yourself are an Econ PhD is probably going too far. If nothing else I think it's worth giving some weight to Warren Buffet's opinion of our president.

-egan