Bass doesn't seem to be there...

[Klosure]

When you listen to most metal albums (take Katatonias Night is the new Day for example)the bass guitar seems actually to be part of the guitar.

In fact its almost impossible to tell one from the other, you really have to listen.

But when I record bass, I push it nice and upfront, compressed etc but it sticks out like a sore thumb,

For example:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/880876/perfect.mp3


I always struggle, I can never actually hear the bass in most metal music, I only seem to realise that it can't be the guitars creating the bass, or is it?


Cabinate thunk seems to exist but is that guitar or bass, I presume both generate the energy and reinforce?

 

[muckypup1]

I know what you mean dude, I've never been able to get it to sound right, so I try to get a bass sound that will sort of sink in with the guitars, so you won't even be able to tell if its guitar or bass you are hearing

 

[Klosure]

cool, im not alone.

When you mix stuff like that though you often mix bass after drums if you find yourself adjusting bass too much after do you find it then burys the drums

 

[muckypup1]

yeah, I always mix the bass after I have the drums ready, or it will just turn into complete shit

 

[ahjteam]

I usually first mix the low end (kick + bass), then vocals, then everything else.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/8065710-post6.html

 

[Klosure]

Ahh this is where the problem starts I find though, cos I tend to fudge up the low end leavinging either not enough or too much.

So I changed the way I mixed, I sorted the drums first, then the bass, trying to treat the drums as 1 instrument....


What I find is that my music can lack in bottem end if I am not careful so I push the bass end more, but then guess what...

its bass heavy...


But if I listen to a lot of modern music the bass never seems to have a lot of definition but is definitly warming the enrgy of the track up.


Are engineers turning the bass up, cutting out stuff leaving just the siloette of the bass or are they doing something else?

Ive tried various bass guitars but I tend to end up with the same issue. I would hate to assume eq had a lot to do with it.

If I push the mix too much you end up with the trap of swamping the drums, and in most modern metal/rock the drums to not get masked.

 

[Morgan C]

Your problem is that your bass has too much mids. Cut between 200-500hz.

Personally I like loud bass and I try and always make my bass somewhat audible in someway, either through a tiny bit of grit poking through, or through really tight lowmids or something like that. Depends on the style.

 

[Fragle]

paraphrasing andy: good mixing and tight playing!

i suggest you check out some of the multitrack files floating around....i found the megadeth-sleepwalker and in flames-take this life ones to be most enlightening. just to give you an idea of how things are sitting in a professional mix.

it's interesting to see how you can mute the guitars and it'll still sound like a song, but if you mute the bass the whole thing seems to collapse.

as for your clip, well first of all it sounds pretty cool imho. i'd say the reason why your bass and gtrs aren't blending is that the guitars seem to have very little low end.

 

[findingthesound]

i suggest you check out some of the multitrack files floating around....i found the megadeth-sleepwalker and in flames-take this life ones to be most enlightening. just to give you an idea of how things are sitting in a professional mix.

Hi, I search these files for a long time.
Just found some Lamb of God, nirvana and some others cool multitracks, but as I'm leaning to swedish melodic death I really need those.
Any clue?

Thank you and sorry for the "out topic".

 

[zvish]

up for this thread! More experienced guys, please post some useful info, how you work with you low end and glue it with rest of the mix;P

 

[cobhc]

I'm with Morgan, the bass has to support the guitars, but not just fill out the low end without being able to pick it out from the guitars. This is why I love the newest Exodus albums as you can pick Jack's lines out pretty well, and the same with Frank Bello back in the old school Anthrax days.

 

[Russtopher]

I'm with Morgan, the bass has to support the guitars, but not just fill out the low end without being able to pick it out from the guitars. This is why I love the newest Exodus albums as you can pick Jack's lines out pretty well, and the same with Frank Bello back in the old school Anthrax days.

Frank's bass always stands out on the Belladonna era Anthrax for sure, it always had more of a "round" sound than being bass-heavy, if that makes any sense Charlie's kick always sounded a bit weird to me as well, especially listening to it now even in comparison with some other drummers from that era. Still, helped make their sound quickly identifiable!

 

[Klosure]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/880876/per3.mp3

An improvement, but after watching Producing Hard Rock With Logic, I realise that if I could just get a decent guitar sound to start with, and the rest it might be easier in the long run..

Oh and I have tried!

 

[Harry Hughes]

That guitar tone is super fizzy around 6-7KHz.
Might want to reduce around that area and a slight boost around 4KHz

 

[jval]

Aside from tracking it tight and in-tune, i feel like this is just a level thing. You need to LEARN your speakers and room and know how much bass is "right."
For metal I try to find a level where it blends with the guitar and fills it out. When mixing i'm often muting and un-muting the bass track to see how much it's there... and always check it on wussy speakers to make sure there are enough low-mids.
like someone else said it often seems like it's not there, but if you were to mute it, the mix would fall apart.

 

[DanLights]

just to get a bit off-topic, I can certainly distinguish the bass in Night is the New day, I like how David Castillo has this distinct sound pretty different from his jedi master Jens Bogren, his recordings (I´m only speaking for fathomless mastery and night is the new day, haven´t heard more from him) in that his work sounds dirtier while Jens work (specially Great cold distance) is sooo much more polished and clean. The bass on night is the new day sounds a lot like Jonas´s bass on Fathomless Mastery, pretty distorted although to a bit less obviously cause of the genre, while the bass on great cold distance is so round and deep it´s mindblowing.

I love Jens´ work better I think, but Castillo truly growing from being a young padawan

 

[Klosure]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/880876/perf4.mp3

Redid the guitar... not sure if I am getting it yet, i like the large bass but.. hmm
of course this is a slappy put together idea, not enough time spent of arrangement.

wish I had more time!


The new Katatonia album vs TGCD (Castillo VS Bogren) is a great way to see how 2 very distinct mixing , its cleaner as you say HOWEVER its something that swings from left to right with me, cos I also think the sound of NITND is fucking awsome, just TGCD moves me more, maybe its Jens way of interpreting the groove. Having said that Castillo has a way of mixing that I could only dream of acheiving, and thankfully makes me thurst of finding a way that I could mix to my own way, but up to those standards and thats really where I bet we all want to be!

 

[DanLights]

The new Katatonia album vs TGCD (Castillo VS Bogren) is a great way to see how 2 very distinct mixing , its cleaner as you say HOWEVER its something that swings from left to right with me, cos I also think the sound of NITND is fucking awsome, just TGCD moves me more, maybe its Jens way of interpreting the groove. Having said that Castillo has a way of mixing that I could only dream of acheiving, and thankfully makes me thurst of finding a way that I could mix to my own way, but up to those standards and thats really where I bet we all want to be!

I agree 100000% with you on that, Jens is definitely the master but Castillo is no underdog, he's super awesome and is definitely developing is own mixing style which is totally admirable.

Plus he does live sound! In fact I just might know how good he is at live sound when I see Katatonia live for the first time next month

 

[Klosure]

Yea I saw Katatonia last year (November) but was not enthralled by the performance, I have seem them play much better.

But like you I am also looking forwarded to seeing them next month!!! live in Cardiff (Wales!) and as they headlining im expecting a lot!

 

[Deadstar]

Listening to night is the new day it seems Castillo used the same trick of Bogren. Bass splitted in 3 tracks, 2 hard panned and one distorted di in the center. Use the dist to glue with guitars and leave the lowend to the other 2
hope that helps