Bass Processing

[beyond dead]

I use a ts7, and I think it is more than grindy enough for me

if you click on the link in my sig, and check out the tune "new bd track no vocals" you can hear what I think is a pretty gnarly bass tone!

 

[Charles J]

I never sidechain the bass to the kick or anything as I feel that it really hampers the dynamics. I'd rather have them 'almost perfectly' peaking at different frequencies. If you feel the need to sidechain the bass to the kick in metal, you may be sure that something's wrong with the balance. Same goes for bussing both of them to a compressor.

P.S. IMO.

I feel you dude! I don't necessarily HAVE to bus them both to a compressor, but I like the outcome. Makes everything smack a little harder, at least for my style and aesthetic.

But then again, I like fairly processed sounding productions... =D

Sidechaining the bass to the kick I never liked though, agreed!

 

[ParsonsMatt]

Man, all I do is ReaGate, Voxengo Boogex with an Ampeg 810/Audix D6 impulse, and ReaComp and I'm happy

 

[Rex Rocker]

I just run mine thru my POD XT... even without the bass pack,

Bass (with EMG HZ's) > Bass OD > Big Bottom > Line 6 4x10 > Dynamic 421 > Compressor > VERY slight EQ...

It's actually a preset by Bulb, I believe, which I tweaked to fit my stuff. I added the Bass OD and the Line 6 4x10 for a more scoopy sound, basically.

 

[Fragle]

since i got my sansamp psa-1 it's usually a blend of the DI and another track reamped through the sansamp.

for some reason i found that the whole splitting into low/hi track never really worked out for me. it always sounded like to different instruments regardless of where i set the crossover.
hence, i tend to use the sansamp track for the main tone, i.e. fat bottom end and sizzly, gained up highs, almost zero mids though.
this track will sound very brutal, but lacks a bit definition, so i'll blend in the DI track to give the notes some presence and cut.

other than that, both get bussed together, compressed, maybe some sub low enhancer for that really fat bass sound, and sometimes also limited. there might also be EQ, but only small adjustments to make the track sit better. i'll do more extensive EQ on the individual tracks, mostly carving space for the kick, adjusting the sub lows, and finding that 2-4k snarl which really cuts through.
the DI is also compressed and usually also limited, the sansamp with it's extra gain won't get that much compression though.
ah yeah, and often a multiband comp is used while reamping to make the bass sit better (andy sneap trick )

 

[KKuff]

Do any of you guys do any compression on the way in for the DI? I have a DBX 166XL compressor and I've been just using software compressors for mixing, and I was thinking about using the DBX on the way in next time I track bass, just to even out the dynamics a little, nothing extreme.

 

[Ermz]

Are the 166XLs the poor ones, or the expanded versions of the 160As? Either way it can't be too harmful if you shave some peaks off and get a higher level 'to tape'. I always compress Bass DI on the way in, every time. From Distressors to 1176s, to the Millennia's opto comp, really anything that's around. I find I personally like to treat the bass less like an instrument and more like something that fills in the bottom register, and adds grit to the midrange. Basically Bergstrand style sub-bass is what I'm digging a lot because it leads to mixes that sound more like the 'technically perfect' electronica releases. The bass becomes more of a synth bass and just augments the fatness of the entire mix.

 

[aramism]

yeah bass is a motherfucker to get right. it's like the most important thing and the least heard thing sometimes...


it adds an invisible density to the whole mix especially in modern commercial rock mixes.

like others often i end up doing a lot of processing on the mix but sometimes you get lucky and its just a DI + amp... i really think it comes down how it is played. bass is the most performance intensive instrument IMO next to a vocalist. to me a good bass player sets bands apart from each other INSTRUMENTALLY considering all the other elements are there. unfortunately bass has such a crappy reputation amongst younger and modern bands that the bass player is usually some sort of pushover average musicians that just filled the spot and they liked to hang out with.

all kidding aside, if the bass sounds good on the DI without anything on it, it makes life that much easier. most music you can get away with just using a DI signal which is gonna give you the most low end anyway and some sort of secondary track whether its an amp or guitar amp sim plugin where you are just using it for brightness. if i'm strapped for time instead of reamping, especially in metal, i'll use the guitar amp pro in logic with like a medium gain amp model like a plexi or something for the brightness.

i found that when you have the time doing tons of automation really helps sit it in place as sometimes you don't want it as loud or just automate the different tracks. the "low end" track that is very compressed with multi band comp and a regular comp for dirt and usually a limiter as well generally never moves and just is there to keep the density of the song and then the other track which is the present bass, the brighter less bassier track gets automated a lot to create the illusion of the bass and you just automate it up and down through the song.

the master of bass for me has always been andy wallace and if you listen to his mixes particularly linkin park there is even automation on the low end. so last mix i did i kind of separated the bass into 3 "zones." the super compressed one was like super super low bass density under 80-90hz and then i had an "audible low end" around 130-250 somewhere in that range that was heard as low end and then i had the bright one. i actually liked automating the middle 130-250 one most as it felt like a bass getting pushed at times like during the choruses and whatnot.

oh and last thing- the trickiest thing about bass is sometimes there are either like harmonics, or just odd frequencies that can really psycho-acoustically muddy up or put a mix out of "focus" without realizing it and its hard to pick up and i've been really working at identifying with them and its not easy like typical guitar stuff, but its very instrument sensitive. while you wanna make a bass extra bright to cut through sometimes you boost the wrong frequencies and even though it sounds right by itself or even at first there are weird things happening that are kind of hard to pick up because of the timbre of the instrument i guess. its generally in the midrange somewhere.

 

[KKuff]

Are the 166XLs the poor ones, or the expanded versions of the 160As? Either way it can't be too harmful if you shave some peaks off and get a higher level 'to tape'. I always compress Bass DI on the way in, every time. From Distressors to 1176s, to the Millennia's opto comp, really anything that's around. I find I personally like to treat the bass less like an instrument and more like something that fills in the bottom register, and adds grit to the midrange. Basically Bergstrand style sub-bass is what I'm digging a lot because it leads to mixes that sound more like the 'technically perfect' electronica releases. The bass becomes more of a synth bass and just augments the fatness of the entire mix.

It's one of the cheaper ones. It's not their bottom of the line compressor, but it's only maybe one up from the bottom. http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/dbx-166XL-Dual-Compressor-Limiter?sku=183548
I don't really know much about it yet, I just got it from work (I do Audio-Visual work for conventions), since we never use it there, I thought maybe I would have some use for it at home, just to level out dynamics on bass and/or vox on the way in. I agree with you on just using the bass to fill in the bottom register, I really liked how the bass and guitars fit together in that last mix that you posted. It's definitely something I'm going to start trying. When you're using this method of bass/guitar mixing, what frequency range would you say the majority of your bass sound sits in? I was trying to get the bass sitting at between 100-200hz and I hi-passed the guitars at 150. I've been trying to keep the bass a little bit higher than the kick, but I've been thinking about maybe boosting a little bit of the sub lows maybe around 50 or so, and hi-passing the kick at 60.

 

[aramism]

yeah i actually recently started using like 1-2 db MAX (usually just a hair off the top) comp with limiting mode on the la610 compressior section on the way in which just catches some peaks and nasty transients and really makes them sound much fatter rather than thin clank.


i always used to play it safe with never compressing anything on the way in but the last stuff i've done i've added a little compression on bass and vocals on the way in. well a little more than a little on vocals but still, it sounds better at the end.

 

[KKuff]

yeah i actually recently started using like 1-2 db MAX (usually just a hair off the top) comp with limiting mode on the la610 compressior section on the way in which just catches some peaks and nasty transients and really makes them sound much fatter rather than thin clank.


i always used to play it safe with never compressing anything on the way in but the last stuff i've done i've added a little compression on bass and vocals on the way in. well a little more than a little on vocals but still, it sounds better at the end.

When doing this, what are good starting points for attack and release on the bass as well as for vox? I would assume for the bass, that you would want a fast attack and release since you're trying to tame the peaks, as not to let any of the transient through.

 

[aramism]

yeah pretty fast/fast i would guess it depends on the compressor and the type of material.

if its like a slow jazzy bluesy type bass with a pretty consistent player you could probably get away with slower attack/release times but i mean the goal here is just to kind of tame the peaks so you can narrow the dynamic range if that's what you want. it really helps with less consistent players.

if someone is extremely consistent, you can be more daring with the compression.

same goes with vocals i guess.

 

[Agonal]

which frequency are you guys mostly pinpointing your bass tracks at?

 

[DanLights]

which frequency are you guys mostly pinpointing your bass tracks at?

personally I try to go between 150-300 Hz for the main low end, for the high end it really depends on the bass sound and guitar you have and are aiming for, at least that´s what I´ve learned in my short experience with mixing

 

[DanLights]

I just run mine thru my POD XT... even without the bass pack,

I used to do that on some preproduction demos with a progressive metal band I used to be in, we used the guitarrist´s POD xt live to record the bass and turned out pretty damn well, we even released a single with the bass recorded like that, it was pretty loud in the mix and sounded great. Here is the song http://www.myspace.com/athlos. By that time I didn´t know squat about recording and the engineering and mixing was done by someone else so I can´t even remember what settings we used on the pod, but I´m almost sure it was a fender bassman model.

 

[theforgotten]

I'll have bass GTR recording session today so I was googling little and I've found this http://www.livevideo.com/video/00F5D0CA493E4F4BB9CF5872ADC06AEC/playing-bass-with-a-metal-muff.aspx I have Metal Muff so is it wise to give it a try?Thanks!

 

[StefTD]

Depends on what sound I want I use 2 to 3 tracks most of the time.
1 track just hi passed and really compressed DI track.
The second one is Ampeg SVX with a some "rocky" SVT sound, not to much bass there.
And a third low passed track with Solo C or whatever plugin I like at the moment for nice
high gritty highs, so compressed clean lows, nice svt style mids and distorted highs.
Sometimes I just compress that signal in the end with a multiband comp.
Works for me almost everytime, but I think I have to try something different soon.
Gonna record a song of a band I know, the bass player plays totally different to me
with a Jazzbass, most of the time I use my Music Man, so I think I have to try something
new.

 

[Seizure.]

I feel you dude! I don't necessarily HAVE to bus them both to a compressor, but I like the outcome. Makes everything smack a little harder, at least for my style and aesthetic.

But then again, I like fairly processed sounding productions... =D

Sidechaining the bass to the kick I never liked though, agreed!

Only side chain lows.. lets mids still poke through.. i love doing that, been doing it for the last year haha

 

[jval]

when the bass and bassist are good, it's pretty easy. otherwise, it can be a real pain.

i usually just have a DI track with EQ (big boost somewhere low like 60, and other EQ depending on the bass), then comp / limit, and maybe RBass. I also usually duplicate the DI and use the sansamp plug for distortion, HPF and LPFing this track aggressively.

What's this "Rat" you guys are talking about?? Is it the "Dirty Rat" pedal?

 

[AudioGeekZine]

I've been really depressed with how my bass sounds these days recording direct. Just really fucking boring sounding.
Bass is an Ibanez SR500, active. Sounds bad with eq flat or all up.
Can't get anything useable out of my Sansamp pbdi, I'll probably sell it, maybe the bass too.

Gonna try all my combos of DIs to see if I can get something I'm happy with.