bass tone flow chart

Ermz said:
I'm looking at a Warmoth custom bass at the moment. I've deduced that an entirely-maple instrument should get me closest to the best sounding bass I ever tracked (which was this: http://www.guitar.com.au/guitars/bass/bc_rich/beast.htm). I think a combination of extremely bright tone-woods plus DC40s should give a good balance between mid-clarity, low-end and fret grind. Also, stainless steel fretwire is a must for extra clack.
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I have an entirely maple bass and it is pretty awesome. 1991 Jackson Futura.
3-24-2011FuturaXL1.jpg

Obviously not as bright as a Bolt on Instrument, but it is bright for an NT, nice growl too! Have to get around to swapping out the shitty stock pickups for the EMG PJ set.

I would strongly persuade you against the Warmoth route if you can find anything else you think would work. You will be at $1200 before you know it, and resale is about 45% right off the bat. All maple + 35" + 5 String (Just made assumptions that you wanted 35 and 5 strings, based on the fact that something with those specs would cover the most ground in a modern metal recording studio) is a tall order, but look at some other stuff. Modulus makes some really nice bright basses that you can get for ~$1k-1.2k used that might fit the bill for you. The new Zon imports are also very nice.
 
tempe said:
I respectfully disagree, if done well it can sound incredible in metal. Check out the Arusha accord. Their bass player does nothing but slap and it is just bludgeoning and awesome.

I think the problem with slap bass is that most people suck.
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You aren't really disputing my post though. I certainly concede that there are guys who actually apply the technique to rock and metal but 99% don't and just use it for YT videos and guitar shops. Don't get me wrong, this is as much of a self-critique as anything b/c I've got a lot of hours in my slapping but the point is most players simply don't apply it to actual songs.
Back on topics, all of the tones posted sound like they've got loose strings so drop tuning and/or lighter gauges will help.
 
Rogueleader said:
I would strongly persuade you against the Warmoth route if you can find anything else you think would work. You will be at $1200 before you know it, and resale is about 45% right off the bat. All maple + 35" + 5 String (Just made assumptions that you wanted 35 and 5 strings, based on the fact that something with those specs would cover the most ground in a modern metal recording studio) is a tall order, but look at some other stuff. Modulus makes some really nice bright basses that you can get for ~$1k-1.2k used that might fit the bill for you. The new Zon imports are also very nice.
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As you say, it's a tall order. I'd love nothing more than a BTB with those specs, but in this climate where completely inappropriate woods are the fashion it's unlikely to happen.

Thanks for the heads up about Modulus and Zon. I'll look through their inventories and see if there's anything good going on.
 
Ermz, I'll point you towards the genesis series if you go the modulus route. I've never been a fan of the graphite necks but YMMV. One thing that makes a big difference if you want bright is moving away from the (extremely popular) multilam necks and just getting a solid quarter sawn maple. Bolt on is a must too. Solid maple bodies can be tough to come by b/c of the weight but if you can find a legit maple top (.5-1") on ash you should be in seriously bright territory....particularly if you couple that with the maple neck and a maple or ebony board.
 
Thanks. It would be absolutely awesome if the Genesis page on the Modulus site didn't show and describe their Funk Unlimited series instead! http://www.modulusguitars.com/v3/genesisbass.php

Ash is commonly described as a relatively bright wood. My current BTB has an ash body, but I've rarely ever heard a bass so mid-heavy coming out of the pickups. I'd be hesitant to take ash in a guitar again. If anything an alder body with thick maple laminate might do the job. Stainless steel frets + ebony fretboard mmmm... Not sure how I feel about graphite rods or nuts though (yes, that does sound as wrong as you think).

EDIT: They appear to be extraordinarily expensive.
 
By mid-heavy do you mean 800-2k-ish? Unfortunately it varies quite a bit based on the piece of wood. If your BTB has a through body and/or multilam neck, that goes a long way to shifting the frequency downward. I have two nearly identically spec'd basses except for the neck (same make, pups, woods, etc.) but the one with the 5 piece neck does a lot more in the 300-500 range. It makes for a more complex tone but it also sounds like the opposite of what you want. Neck through achieves a similar midrange "complexity" so I wouldn't jump straight to the conclusion that the ash is the issue. I actually think that the neck construction makes as big of a tone difference as the body wood. I've long wondered why so many metal guitar companies make basses with 7 piece necks (and mahogany bodies) since that tone is rarely what their target market wants.

It sort of sounds like you want a 15lb jazz bass with ultra modern pickups. Actually, a Sadowsky (metro modern --think Newsted) comes to mind but they are stupidly expensive as well.
 
Egan's right on the money - the neck joint plays a huge part in that frequency range. Neck-thru's will be inherently more hefty in the lower-midrange and have a more 'tubby' character to them than the exact same instrument with a bolt-on neck.

Ermin, I think you'd be getting close to ideal with an alder Jazz bass that had a solid, quarter-sawn maple neck and stainless steel frets. A mexican Jazz standard with a Warmoth neck is the route I'd go for that setup.
 
egan. said:
By mid-heavy do you mean 800-2k-ish? Unfortunately it varies quite a bit based on the piece of wood. If your BTB has a through body and/or multilam neck, that goes a long way to shifting the frequency downward. I have two nearly identically spec'd basses except for the neck (same make, pups, woods, etc.) but the one with the 5 piece neck does a lot more in the 300-500 range. It makes for a more complex tone but it also sounds like the opposite of what you want. Neck through achieves a similar midrange "complexity" so I wouldn't jump straight to the conclusion that the ash is the issue. I actually think that the neck construction makes as big of a tone difference as the body wood. I've long wondered why so many metal guitar companies make basses with 7 piece necks (and mahogany bodies) since that tone is rarely what their target market wants.
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Instead of trying to articulate it in words, I've just uploaded some DI examples for you here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Forum/Ibanez vs NJ Beast.rar (link up 30 mins from when this post went up)

Two clips of the BTB, one raw and one with slight EQ and comp on the way in. A third clip of the NJ Beast with a touch of EQ and comp on the way in. Basically I want to get closer to the Beast sound. The difference in fidelity is immense, I'm sure you'll agree. The two processed clips of both basses are played by the same bassist.

If by complexity you mean harmonic content, then yes, I'm looking to avoid that at all costs. I'd like to isolate the fundamental and have a synth bass-esque low-end with a fat and throaty fret grind. So far the closest I've come to that is via non-standard materials like Chesswood (BC Rich's name for some cheap Asian offcuts or something in early '00s) and Ironwood.

A bassist friend of mine who's coming along on this journey for ultimate bass fidelity ordered a set of Villex pickups too. He seems adamant that they have the right idea about reducing harmonic overtones. The sound of the pickups apparently harkens at the tone I got from an old 70s ironwood Chapman stick with hand-wound pickups, which to this day is up there as one of the coolest raw bass tones we've ever heard.
 
Ermz said:
As you say, it's a tall order. I'd love nothing more than a BTB with those specs, but in this climate where completely inappropriate woods are the fashion it's unlikely to happen.

Thanks for the heads up about Modulus and Zon. I'll look through their inventories and see if there's anything good going on.
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Huge, huge vote for Modulus from me. I've had several basses including a BTB and a Fender Jazz, and the modulus VJ4 I have just absolutely slays.

These clips aren't exactly up to your standard Ermz, but I feel they represent the bass fairly well.

 
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So, what pickups can you recommend for Squier VM JB? I want to get some kind of Beneath The Massacre buldozer distorted bass tone.
 
I have a Fender Jazz and Sting Ray at the studio, and I'd say I prefer the Sting Ray over the Jazz!
 
Rockchops said:
I don't get it, if you like the tone of the Beast so much, why didn't you buy that same Bass in the first place?
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I'm willing to take a sacrifice on appearance in order to achieve the ideal tone, but the Beast looks incredibly juvenile. Besides, they are no longer in production with the same materials, so I would need to wrangle one up second hand.
 
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