Bendeth Calls Out Sturgis #epic #shitstorm #podtact #podtactless #cats

[Trevoire520]

Yeah I remember an interview with them a while back where they said when working with Colin they'd record a part and say to him "was that good enough?" and his response would basically be "do YOU think it's good enough?"
To me that's teaching a band to be able to critique their own performance instead of relying on someone else to make all the decisions for them. Which is a good thing. I would hate for all producers to be like Joey where he basically writes the bands albums for them.

As said though it's incredibly funny how they've taken a dig at Colin but haven't put out a single decent song since they stopped working with him.

 

[mva801]

Yeah I remember an interview with them a while back where they said when working with Colin they'd record a part and say to him "was that good enough?" and his response would basically be "do YOU think it's good enough?"
To me that's teaching a band to be able to critique their own performance instead of relying on someone else to make all the decisions for them. Which is a good thing. I would hate for all producers to be like Joey where he basically writes the bands albums for them.

As said though it's incredibly funny how they've taken a dig at Colin but haven't put out a single decent song since they stopped working with him.

Yea every producer is going to have a different way of working. Some producers take a heavy hand. Some producers simply coax the best out of the musicians themselves. Just because Colin isn't writing your vocal harmonies for you, doesn't mean he "isn't a producer." That's just a stupid thing to say. He's just not the producer BFMV is looking for. Although, they should go back because they sounded better with him.

 

[Terminus]

Nuno yeah, music is shit but the production is awesome.

Honestly if I had to choose between the music being shitty or the production being shitty, I have to say I'd take the shitty production. Otherwise what's the point of getting excited about some lame album just for the production? That just seems absurd. But I guess that's where we are now.

 

[Lon]

Honestly if I had to choose between the music being shitty or the production being shitty, I have to say I'd take the shitty production. Otherwise what's the point of getting excited about some lame album just for the production? That just seems absurd. But I guess that's where we are now.

I'd like to state that The Poison is not musically shit by any objective criteria, it's just Pop Metal and a lot of people who mostly consider themselves to be part of the "real metal" crowd detest the sound of it whilst others love it. But to say tears don't fall is an inheritly bad song is just insane.

 

[Vicioushead]

BFMV criticizing Colin Richardson.

WTF.

 

[Terminus]

I'd like to state that The Poison is not musically shit by any objective criteria, it's just Pop Metal and a lot of people who mostly consider themselves to be part of the "real metal" crowd detest the sound of it whilst others love it. But to say tears don't fall is an inheritly bad song is just insane.

I've never heard any of this music you're referencing and didn't make any references to any particular album mentioned ITT being shitty, more of a generalization (OH NO!!!!) about "sturgiscore" or whatever it's called these days. Although if I was to cite an example, Emmure comes to mind.

 

[Lon]

I've never heard any of this music you're referencing and didn't make any references to any particular album mentioned ITT being shitty, more of a generalization (OH NO!!!!) about "sturgiscore" or whatever it's called these days. Although if I was to cite an example, Emmure comes to mind.

it seems like i interpreted too much into your statement, my bad. But in the case of emmure, yes, but SHIT THE PRODUCTION SLAMS BRO (brospeak for maximum statement effect), i listen to Emmure just for the enjoyment of the production-redicioulousness.


[THREAD]
Any more news or does the passing of the 5 page limit also mark the absence of new lulz?

 

[Jind]

Yea every producer is going to have a different way of working. Some producers take a heavy hand. Some producers simply coax the best out of the musicians themselves. Just because Colin isn't writing your vocal harmonies for you, doesn't mean he "isn't a producer." That's just a stupid thing to say. He's just not the producer BFMV is looking for. Although, they should go back because they sounded better with him.

Agree wholeheartedly - I always think of Kevin Shirley in this regard as he seems to do what the band/artists needs of him. Do you really think he is telling Steve Harris of Iron Maiden how the melody or harmony should go when he's co-produced on their albums? But when he works with Joe Bonamassa, Joe regularly refers to him as the fifth band member and you will see him listed in on the writing credits of a bunch of songs with both Joe and his previous side project Black Country Communion. It all depends on what the artist is looking for.

Similarly someone like Nick Raskulinecz who has co-produced the last two Rush albums with the band seems much more in the coaching roll - there are several quotes from Neil Peart referencing Nick really trying to constantly remind and reaffirm them what a Rush fan wants to hear from them (Nick being a huge Rush fan himself).

I tend to think the best producers become whatever the band/artist requires - sometimes whats needed may change from album to album as Shirley's has since he's been involved with almost every album/project Joe's had since 2006 (about 12 or so).

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Well Kevin Shirley has to be good at something dont you agree?lol Let´s face it, his mixes are really, really poor. I saw some youtube video one day that he said something like, I just put the mic over there and that´s it, even without trying to find a spot where it sounds good. He just throws over there! ahaha, this was a mic for the bass drum. I thought, is this guy serious? Of course he is. Just listen to the mix in last maiden albuns or Black Country Communion.

 

[Jind]

Well Kevin Shirley has to be good at something dont you agree?lol Let´s face it, his mixes are really, really poor. I saw some youtube video one day that he said something like, I just put the mic over there and that´s it, even without trying to find a spot where it sounds good. He just throws over there! ahaha, this was a mic for the bass drum. I thought, is this guy serious? Of course he is. Just listen to the mix in last maiden albuns or Black Country Communion.

Once again I suspect when it comes to Maiden, Steve Harris gets final say on everything. Also, I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the two most recent Maiden albums - A Matter of Life and Death and The Final Frontier sound fine to me - not sure exactly what you expected. They both have a different sound with AMoLaD being a much darker sounding album, but I'm perfectly fine with my music not sounding like cut. copy, paste settings.

As for BCC, it's clear the first album was rushed and thrown together extremely quickly, but like the Maiden comment above, I have little issue with both 2 and think Afterglow sounds great - talk about a huge rock drum sound.

Have you even listened to the last 4 Bonamassa albums or the stuff he did with Bonamassa and singer Beth Hart? May not be your style of music, but they are great sounding albums. I just got Beth Hart's new disc and love the sound of it.

Perhaps my musical taste being as varied as they are more readily accept different production styles, methods, and techniques, but I'd rather here variety than simply well polished turds (lets make every record sound the same type production). If I told you my favorite album ever you would probably disown me from the "metal" community - but I like what I like and perhaps it's my age, have a certain fondness for dated sounds.

But such is life and opinions certainly do vary.

 

[superfreak]

Once again I suspect when it comes to Maiden, Steve Harris gets final say on everything. Also, I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the two most recent Maiden albums - A Matter of Life and Death and The Final Frontier sound fine to me - not sure exactly what you expected. They both have a different sound with AMoLaD being a much darker sounding album, but I'm perfectly fine with my music not sounding like cut. copy, paste settings.

As for BCC, it's clear the first album was rushed and thrown together extremely quickly, but like the Maiden comment above, I have little issue with both 2 and think Afterglow sounds great - talk about a huge rock drum sound.

Have you even listened to the last 4 Bonamassa albums or the stuff he did with Bonamassa and singer Beth Hart? May not be your style of music, but they are great sounding albums. I just got Beth Hart's new disc and love the sound of it.

Perhaps my musical taste being as varied as they are more readily accept different production styles, methods, and techniques, but I'd rather here variety than simply well polished turds (lets make every record sound the same type production). If I told you my favorite album ever you would probably disown me from the "metal" community - but I like what I like and perhaps it's my age, have a certain fondness for dated sounds.

But such is life and opinions certainly do vary.

+1

I respect Kevin Shirley's attitude towards recording and mixing; his interview with RecordProduction.com was inspiring. Producers/engineers like Kevin Shirley and Joe Barresi have been my biggest influences these past few years.

I too am extremely bored of the super edited, super polished, almost unnatural records that are being released in this day and age. Seems like everybody is paying attention to all the wrong things; the "art" is lost and the "sound" is in demand. Everything "sounds" exactly the same, not just musically but sonically as well.

I really hope this madness of cloning Sturgis-core and Periphery ends soon. Enough is enough!

 

[joelplagues]

Yeh we should do more often. Remember the one on ryans wall while I was at machine shop. Amazing.

HAHA that thread was monstrous!

 

[mva801]

Well Kevin Shirley has to be good at something dont you agree?lol Let´s face it, his mixes are really, really poor. I saw some youtube video one day that he said something like, I just put the mic over there and that´s it, even without trying to find a spot where it sounds good. He just throws over there! ahaha, this was a mic for the bass drum. I thought, is this guy serious? Of course he is. Just listen to the mix in last maiden albuns or Black Country Communion.

What? Dude. I love Kevin Shirley. Ever since I heard the first Silverchair record when I was like 12. I'm becoming more and more a fan of the more organic, non-sampled, non-hyped, natural sound. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I would say his mixes are more DIFFERENT than poor.

I think he's a guy, like jind said, who serves the artist rather than take something and shoe-horn it into a "modern" package....

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I also remember him saying he mixes an album in 2 days, and doesn't ever come back to what he did the day before. I would agree with Nuno that it shows somehow and it would be much better if he did, but that's his style, people seem to like it and his credentials speak for him.

 

[LBTM]

I also remember him saying he mixes an album in 2 days, and doesn't ever come back to what he did the day before. I would agree with Nuno that it shows somehow and it would be much better if he did, but that's his style, people seem to like it and his credentials speak for him.

everybody would like to change something in a finished mix IMO. you can't be objective with your own stuff. if you listen to your delivered mixes you'll only get pissed off. unless i'm a perfectionist and that's just me.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Once again I suspect when it comes to Maiden, Steve Harris gets final say on everything. Also, I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the two most recent Maiden albums - A Matter of Life and Death and The Final Frontier sound fine to me - not sure exactly what you expected. They both have a different sound with AMoLaD being a much darker sounding album, but I'm perfectly fine with my music not sounding like cut. copy, paste settings.

As for BCC, it's clear the first album was rushed and thrown together extremely quickly, but like the Maiden comment above, I have little issue with both 2 and think Afterglow sounds great - talk about a huge rock drum sound.

Have you even listened to the last 4 Bonamassa albums or the stuff he did with Bonamassa and singer Beth Hart? May not be your style of music, but they are great sounding albums. I just got Beth Hart's new disc and love the sound of it.

Perhaps my musical taste being as varied as they are more readily accept different production styles, methods, and techniques, but I'd rather here variety than simply well polished turds (lets make every record sound the same type production). If I told you my favorite album ever you would probably disown me from the "metal" community - but I like what I like and perhaps it's my age, have a certain fondness for dated sounds.

But such is life and opinions certainly do vary.

Dont get me wrong. I am not saying his mixes are poor because he didnt edit them to grid, compress them to hell and back and those things of modern mixes. I am talking about the sound quality of the albuns, for example the last maiden albuns, the mix is quite poor because it sounds quite empty, lacks low end, one of the major problems, the mix doesnt seems to glue. Lacks also some clarity and presence. Of course this is always subjective but it´s my point of view. Now see the funny thing. Let´s put here a "somewhere in time" (1986), sounds million times better than TMOLAD and it´s more than 20 old. It´s cool when a band search for a old vibe in mixes but that doesnt mean that the mix has to sound worse than mixes that came 20 years ago.

I put the album 2 of black country communion in my ipod and I didnt hear it becuase of the same reason that I mentioned above and it´s worse when you hear it in cheap headphones.

Nah men, once again dont get me wrong, I am not so metal as you may think. I love old shit like queen, just listen to stone cold crazy it came in 1974 or day at races from 1976, where you have tie or mother down. Still sounds better than last maiden mixes IMO. Let´s move to the 80´s, you have peter gabriel the album "So", the mix is fucking awesome, even for today. Put there some Appetite for Destruction of GNR, another great one. So I love some old, uncompressed and not edited kind of music. But for today standards, what I heard of shirley it´s far from being good.

 

[Jind]

Perfect example of how I think Kevin works with Steve Harris is this quote from an EQ interview he did after working on the Brave New World disc (do you think it was Mr. Harris's call on using ProTools? :

Q:What did you learn from Iron Maiden?

A: So soon, Mr. B! I learned how to use Pro
Tools, and bite my tongue. I also learned
that not everyone hears things the same way,
and it's all valid.

I suspect they have developed a good working relationship given that he's produced every IM album since that 2000 disc.

 

[Jind]

Dont get me wrong. I am not saying his mixes are poor because he didnt edit them to grid, compress them to hell and back and those things of modern mixes. I am talking about the sound quality of the albuns, for example the last maiden albuns, the mix is quite poor because it sounds quite empty, lacks low end, one of the major problems, the mix doesnt seems to glue. Lacks also some clarity and presence. Of course this is always subjective but it´s my point of view. Now see the funny thing. Let´s put here a "somewhere in time" (1986), sounds million times better than TMOLAD and it´s more than 20 old. It´s cool when a band search for a old vibe in mixes but that doesnt mean that the mix has to sound worse than mixes that came 20 years ago.

I put the album 2 of black country communion in my ipod and I didnt hear it becuase of the same reason that I mentioned above and it´s worse when you hear it in cheap headphones.

Nah men, once again dont get me wrong, I am not so metal as you may think. I love old shit like queen, just listen to stone cold crazy it came in 1974 or day at races from 1976, where you have tie or mother down. Still sounds better than last maiden mixes IMO. Let´s move to the 80´s, you have peter gabriel the album "So", the mix is fucking awesome, even for today. Put there some Appetite for Destruction of GNR, another great one. So I love some old, uncompressed and not edited kind of music. But for today standards, what I heard of shirley it´s far from being good.

I think we will simply have to chalk it up to different taste and agree to disagree. While listening to music on iPod headphones is a necessary evil in today's culture, and unfortunately should be considered when mixing, I'd never judge a mix based upon it.

Regarding the BCC stuff - as I said. 1 was iffy, 2 was better but still ultimately rushed and sounds much more like a live off the floor sound so much so that if you listen to the Live Over Europe disc it's got a similar vibe to 2, but with Afterglow it sounds like an album that was a bit more "produced" to sound big. The whole rushing out albums was part of their thing - it was intended to be pretty organic, max a week or so in the studio with frameworks for songs as a basis and jamming out the rest.

It was a classic rock style side project after all. I always thought they were going for a early 70's Free with a little Zeppelin tossed in for good measure type sound in the music with a slightly modernized production.

But hey - we can simply agree to disagree on Kevin.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Is there objectivity in that matter anyway?

 

[Jind]

Yes, I'm aware we've gone completely off-topic.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming - back to internet fights.... du du duh: