Black Metal og satanisme

[rLn]

Er borknagar et black metal band?

Jeg er nemlig litt provosert over at alle skal være så true. Tro på satan og dyrke ondskap og brenne kirker. Jeg syns at musikken er drit bra, men er så lei av at man MÅ tro på satan og at mange av bandene bryr seg mer om å dyrke satan og brenne kirker enn å lage god musikk. Kunne ikke satanismen vært en greie og black metalen en greie?

dette leste jeg på http://www.anus.com/metal/

"Death metal percussionists often add a strict machinism to
their work with the alternating full bass hits of
oppositional kick drums, creating an undulating wall of
sound that conditions listeners to act out the diabolical
bidding of the bands and their master, Satan."

Jeg spiller selv trommer i et band som spiller noe av denne musikk stilen og bruker mye dobbeltpedal. Skal jeg ikke kunne spille dobbeltpedal heller pga at noen vridde karer mener at jeg lager en forbindelse med satan.

Og hva med kirkebranner. Hva er egentlig poenget? Noen som hører på black metal tror på satan. Og det er greit for meg, det respekterer jeg. Men når de er så smålige og begynner og rakke ned på andres tro, istedenfor å konsentrere seg om sin egen, blir det for drøyt. Hva oppnår de med å brenne ned en kirke? De ødelegger for mange mennesker som går i den kirken hver søndag. Men det dreper ikke Gud.

Derfor respekterer jeg vintersorg så høyt. For han bryr seg ikke om religion eller annet piss men om å lage utrolig bra musikk. Jeg er bare hypp på å høre god blackmetal uten alt det andre pisset for det interesserer meg lite.

 

[Erik Tiwaz]

Borknagar er ikke noe BM band i den tradisjonelle stand , men visse elementer rent musikalskt har Borknagar fra BM.
Satanismen i BM er etter min oppfatning mer et jippo enn noen religiøs dyrkelse , men så klart det finnes sikkert unntak...

Men man kan vel også sette likhetstegn mellom Metal og aggresjon, og til dette passer vel neppe et "speidergutt-image"?
I utgangspunktet er vel image en greie som blir gjort for å fange oppmerksomhet inn til musikken , det er et produkt man selger så desto mer helhetlig dette kan bli , desto lettere blir det å promotere.
Bakgrunnen for at image er viktig er at det er altfor mange labeler og altfor mange band som blir signa , så man trenger et fortrinn for å bli lagt merke til.
Så klart, å brenne ned en bygning for at man skal bli lagt merke til er vel egentlig en ganske dyr måte å gjøre det på da... De kunne jo iallefall ha brukt litt skjønn og heller tatt noen bedehus....hehe

Men dette hendte jo for mange år siden , og er neppe noe særlig aktuelt i dag.

Personlig synes jeg det til tider kan passe med litt satan , død og fordervelse til grimm musikk, da det ofte handler om visualisering.

Men når de er så smålige og begynner og rakke ned på andres tro, istedenfor å konsentrere seg om sin egen, blir det for drøyt.

Vel , alle religioner har innehar vel folk som rakker ned på andre trosretninger , comes with the territory..., "tro" er helt klart det mest subjektive som finnes.

Men hvorfor plager dette deg? Det er bare slik det er...

Gleder meg til den dagen mennesket vokser av seg denne barnesykdommen religion...

 

[Erik Tiwaz]

eh , bare én ting til , hold deg helst til engelsk , de fleste her på dette boardet er ikke Norske skjønner du...

 

[rLn]

Dette blir en umulig diskusjon for du har for gode argumenter.
Jeg er enig i det du sier på nesten alle punkter.
BM er jo egentlig ikke så ille i disse dager, var værre på 90 tallet. I dag er det svært lite av den samme ekstremiteten det var da.

Takk for at du svarte!

 

[TravisW]

eh , bare én ting til , hold deg helst til engelsk , de fleste her på dette boardet er ikke Norske skjønner du...

Ja!
Jeg er ikke flink til aa lese norsk.

Jeg bryr meg ikke om hvis noe dyrker Satan. De kan tro det. Noe som ville brenne gamle kirker skulle drikk petrol og brenn seg.

 

[Anima Lagopus]

Well said Tyr...

There is no point in burning down churches afterall. In Norway is there state- curch. If one curch burns down, the state only takes your money to build up another.. It's no point.

Ikke noen grunn til å ergre seg over andre folks tro, får du ikke noe ut av..

 

[TravisW]

I personally think that the State Church should be cut loose from the State. It's an outmoded system that only serves to corrupt faith with State politics, politics with faith, and can tend to annoy those who aren't firm believers in the Norwegian Evangelical Lutheran Church. Of course, I don't live in Norway, so my opinion shouldn't count too much.

I would probably say that my personal beliefs probably diverge somewhat significantly from those of many people on this forum, since I am a pretty staunch Lutheran. That said, I also believe that people are capable of thinking, understanding, and believing for themselves; and should take every opportunity to do so rather than be led around by loudmouths holding Bibles without looking at things for themselves. Sheep are sheep, regardless of what their beliefs are.

To get this post more on-topic, in my mind, music that is all about Satan is about as silly as Stryper was back in the day--both are pretty ridiculous in my opinion. That's one thing I like about Borknagar; the lyrics are as diverse and interesting as the music.

 

[corrado]

I think, burning down churches is an extreme silly thing, reminds me on the bombing of the big buddha statues in afghanistan.... I mean, apart from the religous meaning this buildings have for some people, this is some kind of cultural heritage that has been standing there for a long time, it´s like cutting down a 1000 year old tree, just for fun!

 

[Naku ist krig]

I wonder what Tyr said.. ?

 

[Loco Bahamut]

*scratches head*

 

[Ziuwarian]

Actually I thought that State church was already abolished by now? Or soon at least? I mean, Sweden made that step in 2000, if I remember correctly, and there are other religious organizations allowed to be formed now, like Forn Sed, so I thought it was abolished in Norway?!

*scratches head, too*

 

[Guttorm]

I don't see what's so ridicolous in burning churches. If you really belive in the old norse aesir, valir, alfir, and all, you for sure have a clear vision of what plague christianity is. Christianity holds no truth for me, it is from a totally different part of the world, and why, WHY, should we worship a place that isn't even in our country, nor in our part of the world?? Christianity basically raped the norse spirit, made all forget nature, made all forget the pure awareness of wisdom, with all their fooling nonsense.

Church-burnings is not ridicolous, it is a symbolic way of showing that christianity should get the Hel out of Scandinavia. Whether these deeds are done in the name of Satan or in the name of Galga Valdr, it doesn't matter for me. I inwards laugh every time christianity suffer.

 

[TravisW]

I don't see what's so ridicolous in burning churches. If you really belive in the old norse aesir, valir, alfir, and all, you for sure have a clear vision of what plague christianity is. Christianity holds no truth for me, it is from a totally different part of the world, and why, WHY, should we worship a place that isn't even in our country, nor in our part of the world?? Christianity basically raped the norse spirit, made all forget nature, made all forget the pure awareness of wisdom, with all their fooling nonsense.

Church-burnings is not ridicolous, it is a symbolic way of showing that christianity should get the Hel out of Scandinavia. Whether these deeds are done in the name of Satan or in the name of Galga Valdr, it doesn't matter for me. I inwards laugh every time christianity suffer.

Here's how ridiculous it is:

"I don't like Christianity=I can burn churches"

"I don't like Mercedes=I can burn Mercedes dealerships"

"I don't like school=I can burn schools"

I don't care if it's symbolic or not, it's completely flawed logic, or at least flawed based upon normal human societal behavior. It follows the very same line of logic as the "fooling nonsense" of the most paranoid practitioners of the very religion you despise so much:

"I don't like witches=I can burn witches"

It's just a different side of the very same coin.

 

[Erik Tiwaz]

I don't care if it's symbolic or not, it's completely flawed logic, or at least flawed based upon normal human societal behavior.

Who's to say what's normal??! Screw normal , in the end - only self matters....

 

[gcele]

I don't see what's so ridicolous in burning churches.

Well, if you dislike christianity because of its narrowmindedness, its prejudices and its condemning dogmas, that is one thing, but isn't burning churches pretty narrowminded, condemning and prejudicial, too?

 

[corrado]

Well, if you dislike christianity because of its narrowmindedness, its prejudices and its condemning dogmas, that is one thing, but isn't burning churches pretty narrowminded, condemning and prejudicial, too?

Well, thats exactly what I wanted to express...

 

[TravisW]

Who's to say what's normal??! Screw normal

However, in order for society to function, there is a certain amount of limitation placed on "self", either voluntarily or forcefully. I'm not even arguing about Christianity at this point; it's the concept of ownership, which is as old as human society. It is part of the way humans organize themselves, whether we like it or not.

in the end - only self matters....

So I can expect bass solos for the entire length of the next Borknagar release?

 

[Guttorm]

Here's how ridiculous it is:

"I don't like Christianity=I can burn churches"

"I don't like Mercedes=I can burn Mercedes dealerships"

"I don't like school=I can burn schools"

I don't care if it's symbolic or not, it's completely flawed logic, or at least flawed based upon normal human societal behavior. It follows the very same line of logic as the "fooling nonsense" of the most paranoid practitioners of the very religion you despise so much:

"I don't like witches=I can burn witches"

It's just a different side of the very same coin.

Hmm, then let's imagine that, during the second world war, the englishmen and the americans did NOT think:

"We don't like nazism = We can get rid of nazism"

What would have happened then? Oh well, now, christianity isn't that drastic as nazism (or communism for that matter) may be, but christianity is for me a plague just like any of those things. I understand that you can't see what lurks beyond christianity, since you are from a country which main religion has been christianity all the time (exception for the native americans, but you get what I mean). Christianity is the same thing for me, as communism is for many americans. So, one solution to get rid of this infection is to burn churches. Just as the war stopped the nazism.

Well, if you dislike christianity because of its narrowmindedness, its prejudices and its condemning dogmas, that is one thing, but isn't burning churches pretty narrowminded, condemning and prejudicial, too?

I don't think christianity is narrowminded, prejudicial, or anything like that. Or well, I dont think it represent christianity in any way. The reason why I hate christianity is because it has destroyed so much - for me - sacred and spiritual things. And it continue to do so, which is the main reason why I want it out from Scandinavia, and the rest of northern/western Europe. Other religions like islam etc (which is just growing here) should of course be sent away too.

Who's to say what's normal??! Screw normal , in the end - only self matters....

I agree. Being normal is generally just another trend of mankind, that has existed for way too long time. If the world was full of strong individuals, we wouldn't have wars between countries, nor many other stupid things ( pop included )

 

[corrado]

The reason why I hate christianity is because it has destroyed so much - for me - sacred and spiritual things. And it continue to do so, which is the main reason why I want it out from Scandinavia, and the rest of northern/western Europe. Other religions like islam etc (which is just growing here) should of course be sent away too.
( pop included )

I think you musn´t generalize a religion as a whole, IMO any kind of religion can be ok, as long as it forces people to think more about the things they´re doing and as it helps them to deal with their lives.

It starts getting bad when religion and politics are mixed and religion is used for personal interests. No war has been fought because of religion - religion was just used to find enough silly people being ready to fight for some silly cause. It´s always about something else - territory, water, oil...., and I don´t think, that things have been different 1000 years ago. Religion does not destroy anything, it´s the general stupidity of human beings that destroys, so i do not hate religions, i hate the whole mankind, or at least the ignorant and narrow-minded examples, no matter what religion they have.

 

[corrado]

Btw, check this out:

http://www.ezines4all.com/fun/bush.htm