Bulb's/Periphery - Production Tips

Habsburgs said:
Jeff why do you hate Misha so much? and why are you comparing him to guys that have been mixing for 20 years. :rolleyes:
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I don't at all hate Misha - I have a ton of respect for the guy basically single-handedly carrying this band and writing most if not all of the music they play, but this recent trend of him being considered a producer and mixer is ridiculous IMO. He has one sound that he's sculpted and perfected, and it works OK for Periphery, but the same POD/AxeFX/S2.0 patches get cookie-cuttered onto his other work like Animals As Leaders, Haunted Shores, the Born of Osiris tracks he did, etc, and it all sounds the same/pretty crappy to me and a lot of other people on this forum.

His stuff at the beginning had a ton of potential to me, because the ideas were awesome, the writing was solid, and the riffs were catchy, but the sound has never developed that much. It still sounds like he record all the guitars direct (which he does, fair enough if that's the sound he wants) and programs all the drums (which he did - the comment about the TD-20 kit is false... totally programmed on the Periphery CD). It doesn't sound like a band, at all, and I don't like that sound being heralded as 'great' or 'amazing' because it lowers the bar for everyone.
 
Yeah, the Animals as Leaders album really does sound like shit, which is a shame, because I think Tosin Abasi is a cool guitarist and musician.
Now, I'm hardly one to be concerned about music I listen to needing to have top notch, polished production.

I listen to a ton of post metal, sludge metal, stoner rock/metal, and just a lot of stuff that is hardly "polished", but something about the AAL album absolutely grates on my ears, and I can't listen to it all the way through.
To some kids, this album sounds "great" and is "an amazing example of POD XT tones" :rolleyes:
Fair enough that Misha has improved since then and obviously the Periphery album sounds much better (but hey, who wouldn't want their own band's album they're producing to sound better?), but still kinda boggles my mind that Misha didn't sit down and think "Hmmm, maybe I should spend another week or so, to get this sounding better!" on the AAL album.
Perhaps they had deadlines or something, I don't know, but point is, somewhere in the process, time could have been spent rectifying some off the problems that came up with the engineering and mix.
Earlier on, could have dialed in a much better guitar tone, could have worked on a better drum sound, just whatever.
It sounds as if Misha didn't use any production references for the album or something. No matter where you are in the game, be it amateur or pro, referencing can definitely make a positive difference on the final outcome.

As for the Periphery album itself, it had the potential to sound more physical and forceful via the bass guitar and snare sound, which would have been awesome since this type of rhythmic, groovy metal really demands that, but again, fell a bit flat.
 
Harry Hughes said:
Yeah, the Animals as Leaders album really does sound like shit, which is a shame, because I think Tosin Abasi is a cool guitarist and musician.
I listen to a...lot of stuff that is hardly "polished", but something about the AAL album absolutely grates on my ears, and I can't listen to it all the way through.
To some kids, this album sounds "great" and is "an amazing example of POD XT tones"
Fair enough that Misha has improved since then and obviously the Periphery album sounds much better (but hey, who wouldn't want their own band's album they're producing to sound better?), but still kinda boggles my mind that Misha didn't sit down and think "Hmmm, maybe I should spend another week or so, to get this sounding better!" on the AAL album.
Perhaps they had deadlines or something, I don't know, but point is, somewhere in the process, time could have been spent rectifying some off the problems that came up with the engineering and mix.
Earlier on, could have dialed in a much better guitar tone, could have worked on a better drum sound, just whatever.
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Yeah, that record isn't bad in a balance issue or clarity way. It's bad in a "didn't you notice that clean guitar was clipping the entire time?" sort of way. I love that record so much it honestly makes me sad that it's so hard to listen to.
Misha is certainly an incredible talent but I tend to agree with Jeff on the productions. We were all blown away by the early bulb demos-- that someone so young was such a talented writer, player and demo maker-- but the problem is that it feels like the production quality stalled at "awesome demo." That's obviously still an achievement, but it's understandable why some people are put off by the worship.
It's especially strange when you juxtapose it with other threads where people dismiss producers like Botrill and Barresi or any other engineer with strong fundamentals in the craft.
Anyway, he's obviously talented but with hype comes scrutiny.
 
JeffTD said:
^^Case in point, those guitars and drums sound exactly like old Periphery demos and the Haunted Shores/BoO stuff.



What, you do? You want to be held to that standard? :puke:
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i don't let things like that define me. people will be as black and white as they want. it's just a matter of opinion.
 
AboutBlank said:
<---BTW, post 808, time for a subdrop!
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I lol'd and proceeded to play a subdrop sample with my monitors turned nearly all the way up.


ubersyntax said:
Acting like a fanboy and taking advantage of the situation in a cheesy fashion are two completely different things. I probably would give him a demo too, but not on camera in the middle of an interview. To stoop that low to basically make [Misha] feel forced to take it is kind of pathetic. Basically he gave Misha no choice but to take it... if Misha said 'no' to him on film, he probably would have come across as a complete douche bag and people would flame him for that. It was a cheesy tactic on the interviewer's part, that's all. People hand demos to bands and labels all the time, that's not the issue... it's the way he did it that's dumb.
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Excellent point. I agree with that. Misha does seem, as far as his personality has shown through on camera and through the web, to be the type of person that would take a demo, though.


The minor argument thing that happened above kind of brings me back to a thread I read about wherein the definition of "producer" was discussed. And in the thread, it was expressed literally as someone who makes sure the stuff is done on time, under budget.
:ill:

I like that face. ^
 
the problem with this is it lowers the standards for the younger generation of musicians.
pay someone who knows the stuff better than you do!
 
Loren Littlejohn said:
He certainly has nailed his sound down to a tea. Versatility is something I would not credit him for.
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I think that sums it up. He's basically spent years getting his Superior and Axe-FX working together just right and now I'm assuming it's very similar settings getting used for every band he does.

Again, not bashing the dude. He seems really humble and probably wouldn't even call himself a much of a producer really. It's just the retardedly high pedestal that all the SS.org crowd put him onto that bugs me.
 
dcb said:
the problem with this is it lowers the standards for the younger generation of musicians.
if misha mansoor sets the new "standards" for "great" production, we`re lost....

i hope the whole "praise misha and periphery" phase will end sooner than later,
because i see a bad trend in this, where bands believe programmed superior drums + axe fx meshuggah riffs and whiny
/forced computerized vocals are the holy grail of music. to me, there is zero expression in these productions...

i hvae nothing against the band and or misha, they are talented and i dont want to bash them, but they are not to be taken as role models. like jeff said, this is an insult to guys like CLA, STAUB etc.
i hope people stop this fanboi-ism... let them be who they are but bands of the future, please do your own thing. pleeasssee. :)= pay someone who knows the stuff better than you do!
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I disagree with this in the sense that Misha is definately a role model in the league of "do-it-yourself" production. Not everyone has thousands of bucks to invest in having every single album of theirs recorded and mixed professionally, and I think that it would help every younger band to know at least the fundamentals of recording and mixing and be able to do decent demos themselves.
Not only will that benefit the bands and save them money, when they DO decide to go into the studio, it will make the studio's job a lot easier as well.

That being said, I'll take Devin Townsend and Thordendal's productions over Periphery's any day.
 
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