Bulb's/Periphery - Production Tips
- Thread starter Virgil.
- Start date
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
@CJ: Complete opposite in my own head man. Been trailing in your footsteps ever since the early days of this board.
I think as long as we continue to be healthy competition to each other for more years to come, we'll be ok!
In regards to these guys and distinctive sounds... yeah the originators are cool, but you know how things get. Ends up being 1,000 copycats for every innovator and the whole thing just wears thin immediately.
The cool thing about the 'analogue' approach - the long-term way, the one that involves thousands of dollars sunk into pre-production, excellent drum rooms, teching, tuning, getting performances right on the day through thousands worth of classic gear, and then mixed with thousands more worth of classic gear.... the vast majority of people don't have the fortitude, time, willpower nor ability to execute such a thing, so it remains a much 'purer' pursuit... to me anyway. Seeing this bedroom production boom happening makes me want to go full bore in the opposite direction, and stay true to more classic ideals of engineering.
The irony to me is how well this generic production boom reflects the overall aesthetic of music being made today. The whole scene feels like an odd, hodge-podge, mishmash of prior eras, chaotically, violently and nonsensically thrown together into this over-edited, soulless mess. In that sense the DIY production route paved by these pioneers is a very appropriate thing... almost hard to argue with.
I think as long as we continue to be healthy competition to each other for more years to come, we'll be ok!
In regards to these guys and distinctive sounds... yeah the originators are cool, but you know how things get. Ends up being 1,000 copycats for every innovator and the whole thing just wears thin immediately.
The cool thing about the 'analogue' approach - the long-term way, the one that involves thousands of dollars sunk into pre-production, excellent drum rooms, teching, tuning, getting performances right on the day through thousands worth of classic gear, and then mixed with thousands more worth of classic gear.... the vast majority of people don't have the fortitude, time, willpower nor ability to execute such a thing, so it remains a much 'purer' pursuit... to me anyway. Seeing this bedroom production boom happening makes me want to go full bore in the opposite direction, and stay true to more classic ideals of engineering.
The irony to me is how well this generic production boom reflects the overall aesthetic of music being made today. The whole scene feels like an odd, hodge-podge, mishmash of prior eras, chaotically, violently and nonsensically thrown together into this over-edited, soulless mess. In that sense the DIY production route paved by these pioneers is a very appropriate thing... almost hard to argue with.
To me, it's always been this when it comes to dudes like Acle, Misha and even Joey.
The idea that "wow, they did all this stuff with pretty much the same things I can get for free" (at least in the beginning) is the calling card for noobs.
I'm a home studio guy, but I see the prevalence of the programmed/edited "bedroom warrior" stuff to be a big bummer. Regardless of rigs and setups, the will always be something more "real" to the dudes who are recording real instruments, miking amps and drums, etc. to dudes programming drums and playing modelers. I realize that it's common these days, but to me I'll never equate those dudes to true "pros", for better or worse, regardless of what they actually are. As a dude in a band as well as a guy recording bands, it's a bummer not to play actual gear when making an album, lol. I would rather have a sub par tone and production knowing everyone played their instruments and miked real objects vs. playing a modeler and programming drums to have a polished sound.
AboutBlank
Member
I wonder if the graphic dudes have similar problems...
I mean Photoshop and whatnot got cracked too, and you need less equipment to run a "graphic studio" in analogy to a studio.
I mean Photoshop and whatnot got cracked too, and you need less equipment to run a "graphic studio" in analogy to a studio.
Sacha
Throbbing Member
Absolutely, I do web stuff for my day job and all the time get sites scooped by someone's cousin who is a 'web designer'. Of course just like anything you get what you pay for and I often have to clean up the mess later...
As for the rest of this discussion I don't really get the contention, Misha is doing his thing and working hard, people are liking it. Who really gives a fuck about trends or whatever in the long run, people are going to like what they like and there isn't much harm in it IMO.
Purists tend to get insulted when people aren't all as elite as them but the fact is not everyone has the same goals, interests and requirements from music and production. No discussion is ever black and white, the same low common denominator is what allowed me to make music in the first place. So I'm just going to do my own thing too and keep striving to be better!
This is why I gave up on Web Design. Getting a gig or two every couple of months for petty cash didn't sound like a good way to live.
HANIAK
Munior Jember
- Dec 12, 2009
- 111
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- 16
Haha, WHATEV dude!!! I fucked up and basically quit for WELL over a year, so you got me on that one....
As for the last bit, I TOTALLY agree...
I also agree with the fellow who said it's the friendly competition that makes us strive to improve, THIS I agree with but I say pick your INFLUECES wisely..
For me, I go STRAIGHT to the top when referencing my own work... I'm talking SNEAP, SEUCOF, MADSEN, CLA, STAUB, GROSSE and YES, STURGIS... In my mind's eye that's the only way to go...
joeymusicguy
Member
its weird how stray from the path instantly sounds different to me now that i know misha did it, hahaha
s2 was used, made famous (and created) by meshuggah (for example catch 33), fredrik thordendal turned most metal guys on the axe fx (including me). all the standards were set by these tremendous guys from sweden!
damn, i wish i was swedish! :Smokedev:
Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
- Mar 7, 2009
- 2,542
- 0
- 36
Actually it is in the "broader" sense that he would be able to call himself, or as in this case others, to call him a producer as he does have production credits on released material. I don't think we can restrict our definition to "producing" by the tools chosen to get results - there is a ton of music, of many genres outside of traditional metal, being created, recorded, produced, without traditional instruments or tools. Think of how many genres of music are completely electronic, no tubes, no amps, no real drummers only programmed drums - it's all still music, and it still needs engineering and production whether it's to our liking or not.
Trust me - I'm no fanboi of Bulb or Periphery - it's just not my type of music, but I'd still never question his skills or whether he is a producer, engineer, musician, ... I might question the later post noting he was a "prolific" producer as I think his catalog is probably lacking in quantity, but to be honest, he's still got more "producer" credits than I do so perhaps I'm wrong as he's certainly more prolific than me.
I know - were splitting hairs, but we are talking about the "broadest" sense here
As always - individual mileage may vary.
i think it was dfh, which they developed into superior later (was that 2006?). jocke might know that.
LOL. Strange how that works, innit? =D
All I hear is terribly recorded + compressed vocals. UGH.
TheDriller
Member
Seth Munson
How do Amber Lamps?
s2 was used, made famous (and created) by meshuggah (for example catch 33), fredrik thordendal turned most metal guys on the axe fx (including me). all the standards were set by these tremendous guys from sweden!
no no, I meant the combo of the two
sure others used each thing, but I mean Misha is the person who really made the SD2+Axe "big" (if you know what I am trying to say)
now I hear people trying to capture this same sound all of the time
Death and the Lament
Dreamt in Silent Design
Ya know, I wouldn't say I was shocked by some of the posts in this thread but really, it almost seems like studio lobbyists are paying for testimonials: "Oh no you must go to a studio!"
I've been producing and recording in both the bedroom and in studios for years. Ya wanna know why people are using drum samples and amp sims?
Because they didn't network and have a friend-of-a-friend to get them into an industry that's impossible to wall-over.
Face it. The global economy is declining, which means people have LESS MONEY! $$$$$ <---- I mean really. When people can barely manage to afford to feed their kids, what do you expect them to do when it comes to getting their music recorded, let alone out there and HEARD.
Sure it takes less time, and less cash to use cab/tone-sims and resample triggered/sequenced drums.
But it's not because it's easier, it's because it severely cuts the budget that neither the artists or the label have.
Look, you "producers" or "tracking engineers" that do one job but refuse to do others, i.e. jack of all trade role, your time is coming.
You need to know DIY now, because that's where the market is. Cut out the fucking middle man, honestly they've been taking too much money for years anyway.
Don't get me wrong, nothing can replace a bad ass set of tubes roaring at 11 on top a real drumset.
But even before bedroom records became popular, how many times were you in the studio when they used the Eventide to fix a vocal, or they reamped the snare and toms because the original tracking had no balls.
Tisk tisk. You whiners are scared. People have to learn it all now. The music industry is fucked and it's because of their own accord, not because of poor artists/engineers like myself.
I've love to use old Royers and have five U87's but I need to be able to make sure I can even eat tomorrow.
Grow up, times are changing. Learn from the old and new, and keep using real equipment, because it DOES sound better.
The saying goes, smoke em' if you got em, and it's true. But when you don't have the 20,000+ to shell out on the tracking/mixing/mastering/marketing etc what do you expect?
Quit crying like babies and be grateful you have studio gear and access, because they are a dying breed.
Studios make NO profit. Consider the cost of owning, maintaining, rent, utilities, EQUIPMENT!
If you're rich enough to not have gotten an entertainment-loan then good for you, but most of these studios (yes even the 'big' ones) are in heavy debt.
Case in point, there's an artist. He has little money. He wants to put his music out there with whatever his little hands can muster. So he does. This is how it's being done
I've been producing and recording in both the bedroom and in studios for years. Ya wanna know why people are using drum samples and amp sims?
Because they didn't network and have a friend-of-a-friend to get them into an industry that's impossible to wall-over.
Face it. The global economy is declining, which means people have LESS MONEY! $$$$$ <---- I mean really. When people can barely manage to afford to feed their kids, what do you expect them to do when it comes to getting their music recorded, let alone out there and HEARD.
Sure it takes less time, and less cash to use cab/tone-sims and resample triggered/sequenced drums.
But it's not because it's easier, it's because it severely cuts the budget that neither the artists or the label have.
Look, you "producers" or "tracking engineers" that do one job but refuse to do others, i.e. jack of all trade role, your time is coming.
You need to know DIY now, because that's where the market is. Cut out the fucking middle man, honestly they've been taking too much money for years anyway.
Don't get me wrong, nothing can replace a bad ass set of tubes roaring at 11 on top a real drumset.
But even before bedroom records became popular, how many times were you in the studio when they used the Eventide to fix a vocal, or they reamped the snare and toms because the original tracking had no balls.
Tisk tisk. You whiners are scared. People have to learn it all now. The music industry is fucked and it's because of their own accord, not because of poor artists/engineers like myself.
I've love to use old Royers and have five U87's but I need to be able to make sure I can even eat tomorrow.
Grow up, times are changing. Learn from the old and new, and keep using real equipment, because it DOES sound better.
The saying goes, smoke em' if you got em, and it's true. But when you don't have the 20,000+ to shell out on the tracking/mixing/mastering/marketing etc what do you expect?
Quit crying like babies and be grateful you have studio gear and access, because they are a dying breed.
Studios make NO profit. Consider the cost of owning, maintaining, rent, utilities, EQUIPMENT!
If you're rich enough to not have gotten an entertainment-loan then good for you, but most of these studios (yes even the 'big' ones) are in heavy debt.
Case in point, there's an artist. He has little money. He wants to put his music out there with whatever his little hands can muster. So he does. This is how it's being done
HCL
Holy Crap! Lions!
Division of labour ensures that in spite of the massive surge in bedroom producers, photographers, graphic designers and so on these businesses will always operate on different tiers of budget and quality.
<3 Adam Smith
<3 Adam Smith
egan.
daylightdies.com
People wouldn't say to go to a studio if it didn't still have the potential to sound better. Besides that, you can mic guitar cabs at home if you spend $150 on a mic/stand/cable and own an amp. You can get a decent room for a bargain price to do drums in if you shop around and are flexible on scheduling. Many of us have mic'd plenty of kits in basements, rehearsal spaces and living rooms when the budget was 0.
The only reasons to take an all sim attitude are:
1) it sounds better for what you're doing
2) you refuse to learn new things
3) you let where you live dictate what you do rather than finding a place to do what's theoretically important to you.
I bet everyone here uses drum and amp sims all of the time for different things but that doesn't mean you should ignore what actually sounds best particularly when talking about who's stuff sounds good enough to emulate (no pun intended). No one is saying "don't record."
The only reasons to take an all sim attitude are:
1) it sounds better for what you're doing
2) you refuse to learn new things
3) you let where you live dictate what you do rather than finding a place to do what's theoretically important to you.
I bet everyone here uses drum and amp sims all of the time for different things but that doesn't mean you should ignore what actually sounds best particularly when talking about who's stuff sounds good enough to emulate (no pun intended). No one is saying "don't record."
An "old" Royer couldn't be more than 14-15 years old...
...Just saying.
And, I'd say $20,000 is still incredibly cheap for a full-blown record.
