Benny H
Degenerate
I remember Acle was spamcoring the Meshuggah forum roughly a year (if that) before Bulb got into self promotion overdrive there.
Bulb's/Periphery - Production Tips
- Thread starter Virgil.
- Start date
Humidfume
Member
I've learnt a lot reading through this thread, how people view things etc... threads like this (which contain intellectual banter / debates) really show me why I love the metal community. Keep it up 
NSGUITAR
Member
- Oct 26, 2009
- 2,180
- 0
- 36
Sorry, Jeff. But I have to call bull shit on that one.
I, also don't really like anything misha puts out as far as mixes go.. But this sounds REALLY good.. Sounds nothing like old periphery.. The guitar tone has a SMALL trace of his sound, but that's it.. And it sounds really good.
ShredderForhire
Member
I hope he was kidding or high when he said something about not having enough "500k" in the mix. lol
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
You're entitled to your opinions dude - I think (and others will agree), but that song sounds like it came from the same session that contained the Haunted Shores/BoO stuff.
I liked watching that.
The guy interviewing him is such a douche. If he really wanted to give Misha his CD, he could have just done it off camera.
He seems like he's passing himself off to his 'followers' as a really knowledgable guy but the questions he's asking Misha would suggest otherwise.
TELL ME ABOUT YOUR AXE FX SETTINGS AND YOUR SAMPLES AND YOUR PLUGINS!
The guy interviewing him is such a douche. If he really wanted to give Misha his CD, he could have just done it off camera.
He seems like he's passing himself off to his 'followers' as a really knowledgable guy but the questions he's asking Misha would suggest otherwise. TELL ME ABOUT YOUR AXE FX SETTINGS AND YOUR SAMPLES AND YOUR PLUGINS!
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
OneDaySky
Clint
Personally, I think his stuff sounds great. I do agree that most of it sounds pretty much the same. Just listening to the music he produces, I think he's great. However, if you look at producing from a more artistic point of view (that being producing/mixing is an artform in and of itself, separate from the songwriting), then he's not that great.
I like Misha's productions: they work very well for his stuff.
On the whole "lowering the standards" thing, I have to disagree: it's about time bands and artists start learning a bit of the craft so they will see how hard it is to get things right and go into a studio properly prepared when they get tired of sounding like they do at home. You know, when they decide to join the big boys and have the funds it takes to record an album. That said, I can only assume this whole do-it-yourself thing might be a blessing in disguise some of you might be overlooking.
It is definitely wrong to think Misha's style of production being praised diminishes the market value of your own directly: it's not like all people in the planet will think alike on this matter and metal production as we know it will cease to exist because there is an uprising scene of bands that use very, very similar production on their tracks. Despite all the online exposition right now, this djent thing is a fad and fads to go as they come: quickly. If you're going to assume every new fad in metal will take you out of business or something similar this is not the kind of industry you want to work with because every three years or so there is a new one. Remember when it was cool to have a goffik chick as vocalist? How about when rap, powerchords and techno synths were the big thing (ok, that one might still hit too close to the bone)?
What did you do to survive last time something like that happened? Did you adapt and learn new tricks to be sure your studio was up to date with the fads of the moment or did you stay "true to your roots", not changing a thing? Whatever you did, it worked, right? Then there's no point in getting worried: bands that want to sound like what you do will look for you and not for bulb, and vice versa. If they don't want your work, you sure as hell don't want to work with them. Well, unless you're completely out of money (i. e. starving) and really need to: in that case just suck it up and learn to do what they want rather than what you think it's good, dummy. For your health.
I'd say he is an amazing mixer in the same way I'd say a hip hop mixer is: if it's good for the standards of the bands that record with him and their fans, it's good enough (even if only for that particular niche). Arguing beyond this point would eventually lead to the unpleasant philosophical question "do black metal mixes suck or not", and not a single good thing can come out of that so I'd rather avoid it.
On the whole "lowering the standards" thing, I have to disagree: it's about time bands and artists start learning a bit of the craft so they will see how hard it is to get things right and go into a studio properly prepared when they get tired of sounding like they do at home. You know, when they decide to join the big boys and have the funds it takes to record an album. That said, I can only assume this whole do-it-yourself thing might be a blessing in disguise some of you might be overlooking.
It is definitely wrong to think Misha's style of production being praised diminishes the market value of your own directly: it's not like all people in the planet will think alike on this matter and metal production as we know it will cease to exist because there is an uprising scene of bands that use very, very similar production on their tracks. Despite all the online exposition right now, this djent thing is a fad and fads to go as they come: quickly. If you're going to assume every new fad in metal will take you out of business or something similar this is not the kind of industry you want to work with because every three years or so there is a new one. Remember when it was cool to have a goffik chick as vocalist? How about when rap, powerchords and techno synths were the big thing (ok, that one might still hit too close to the bone)?
What did you do to survive last time something like that happened? Did you adapt and learn new tricks to be sure your studio was up to date with the fads of the moment or did you stay "true to your roots", not changing a thing? Whatever you did, it worked, right? Then there's no point in getting worried: bands that want to sound like what you do will look for you and not for bulb, and vice versa. If they don't want your work, you sure as hell don't want to work with them. Well, unless you're completely out of money (i. e. starving) and really need to: in that case just suck it up and learn to do what they want rather than what you think it's good, dummy. For your health.
I'd say he is an amazing mixer in the same way I'd say a hip hop mixer is: if it's good for the standards of the bands that record with him and their fans, it's good enough (even if only for that particular niche). Arguing beyond this point would eventually lead to the unpleasant philosophical question "do black metal mixes suck or not", and not a single good thing can come out of that so I'd rather avoid it.
ForceTheTriggerSucks
Member
Trevoire520
Member
I agree with the principal that if a band gets to the studio they might be more experienced in recording and this could make our lives easier. But the devaluing of recording music, something that's a direct result of things like superior drummer, pod's and axe-fx, is really hurting the music production industry as a whole.
It of course doesn't help that music has now been completely de-valued to the point that basically no one will pay for it anymore (after all, if no-ones going to buy your music how can you justify paying someone to record it well for you?) but bands generally are becoming increasingly satisfied with lower and lower standards of production.
If your favourite bands are Devil Wears Prada, Periphery etc, bands who all use nothing but amp sim's and sampled drums then why would you have any motivation to use the real thing and strive for something better? If it's good enough for your heroes it's good enough for you right?
Anyone who works recording for labels will tell you that budgets these days are incredibly slim compared to what they used to be. And this is actually a direct result of the current short shelf life of bands mindset that the music industry has.
Back in the day you were given the budget, and more importantly the time to make a great record. Both sonically and in the songwriting. Nowadays it's all about recording as quickly as possible and getting maximum sales from a band before you move onto the next trend.
Record labels used to be interested in a long term commitment and investment from artists. Now it's a production line with very little concern for quality or originality.
Just ask Joey, he regularly has bands come to record who are barely halfway through writing the record. But the label wants them in the studio now, the marketing department is probably already doing their thing at this point and a release date for the album (that hasn't been written yet) is set.
From what I've gathered he has to help them write and record and mix the album in a incredibly short space of time. So he has to edit poor performances (likely due to them not having had time to practice the material) use pod farm (because there's no time to spend setting up amps and mic's) and trigger the hell out of the drums. The focus is on getting the fastest and cheapest product, not necessarily the best one, which is what this industry used to be about.
And if this is what the music industry is going to put out to young music fans, this is going to be the standard that they aim for. They don't want to go to a nice studio with a great live room and spend time practising their drum parts to hit them hard, consistently and in time, because you can edit and sample replace it later. They don't want to bother learning to sing in tune, because you can fix it later (that's if they even bother to sing, most of the time it's just easier to scream, because after all, no one can slag you for screaming out of tune can they?) They don't want to mic up a world class valve amp and cab with quality mic's and boutique preamps, because you can just stick on pod farm and do it faster.
Some kids these days don't even know how great a real album, recorded by quality musicians with great gear in a great studio with very little editing can sound. It grooves and it has feel and it sounds exciting because of the chemistry between the musicians involved.
They don't know this because they're constantly fed this over edited over digitalized generic crap that sounds exactly the same as every other band in the genre that's appeared in the last year. None of whom will have careers that last because the music industry will chew them up and spit them out the minute they're not in the current popular scene.
It's all uniformity masquerading as perfection. Originality isn't valued anymore. Originality isn't safe. What if people don't like it? This band is doing pretty well, let's make an exact carbon copy of them because we know it's popular. Don't fuck with the sound/image/production one iota! It's too dangerous!
Sorry for going a bit OT. But I still argue that it has relevance to the cookie cutter nature of metal production these days.
(Don't take the above as an attack on Joey, he makes great sounding records, especially considering the time constraints he has to put up with. And he's learned to work with what he's got and got the whole ITB metal thing down to a fine art. The above is a comment about the state of the industry, not about Joey's techniques or results)
Seth Munson
How do Amber Lamps?
I dont understand the Misha bashing (which goes hand and hand with Joey)
They both have their own sound and thats why bands go to them for that exact reason.
I can understand and agree with the carbon copies and giving them shit for not doing their own thing.
But who is Misha copying? From what I understood is he was the first to take AxeFx and SD2 and pushed it to the sound we hear today and what others are trying to copy. (and please let me know if I am wrong, because I very well could be)
I guess I am just trying to understand what the problem is because I dont really what the fuss is about, people dont like his sound because of how many people are trying to copy it right now?
or because he isnt doing real amps/drums ect ect?
They both have their own sound and thats why bands go to them for that exact reason.
I can understand and agree with the carbon copies and giving them shit for not doing their own thing.
But who is Misha copying? From what I understood is he was the first to take AxeFx and SD2 and pushed it to the sound we hear today and what others are trying to copy. (and please let me know if I am wrong, because I very well could be)
I guess I am just trying to understand what the problem is because I dont really what the fuss is about, people dont like his sound because of how many people are trying to copy it right now?
or because he isnt doing real amps/drums ect ect?
I actually laughed my ass off when he said that and I could imagine a first post from someone going like this, "How do boost 500k? I cant find it on my pirate waves q-1 guys, can you give me the preset he is talking about?"
DanLights
Santa Hat Forever
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Well just from my perspective, I like his music and his production (I like some of Joey's stuff too) but I don't want to sound like that. Using it as an influence is okay, but trying to sound just like it.... gehy.
You're going to hate what I'm going to tell you, but this kind of development was pretty obvious from the moment people started treating music as an industry. Mass production will always be proven more "effective" when it comes to sales than a product manufactured by an artisan, except when it comes to a special niche of consumers who value quality over quantity. That's just how industries go.
Seth Munson
How do Amber Lamps?
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
I think it's largely the accessibility of the style of the new-fangled 'producers' that's such a huge drawcard for the kids. At the end of the day the potential is there with anyone that has a bedroom, some speakers, a PC and a bunch of cracked plug-ins. It's just like this in every industry. When you hit the lowest common denominator strong, it resonates with all the bottom feeders, which constitute a majority of the population, and suddenly a vibrant market or following is created.
That's the only way I can rationalize these forums not being filled with Staub worship. Only logical way I can figure it - else reality infarted on itself.
That's the only way I can rationalize these forums not being filled with Staub worship. Only logical way I can figure it - else reality infarted on itself.
Nah Ermz, you're exactly correct...
I respect the guys that did it FIRST and continue to re-invent themselves... as for all the copycats, well, I don't worry about them because they won't be doing this long enough for me to be worried about them as competition or as in 'FUCK HOW DID THEY MAKE A RECORD SOUND LIKE THAT?!?!?!"
NOW, you on the other hand..... hahahaha. That's a different story!
You're in a different (and better, dare I say) league than me. So I am forced to compete with you in my own head... =D
