I read on another forum last night that the Recto Slant and the Stiletto straight cab are virtually the same internal volume and that they produce nearly the same sound. I've never tried comparing the two myself.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Cabs - Stiletto vs Recto... a new twist?
- Thread starter Fvlt
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GuitarHack
Krank it UP!
Proggm
Member
- Jun 24, 2008
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I've tried both (w/dual recto). While the Recto cab had a lot of emphasis on the low end, I felt the Stiletto lets the midrange sort of "breath" more. Of course, this can be easily depend on how you set your amp, but in a way I preferred the Stiletto and ended up buying it.
Omega_Void
Your Eventual Destroyer
Same internal volume puts the speaker's resonance peak at the same frequency and magnitude (assuming identical loudspeakers). For monitor/hi-fi speakers where internal reflections are minimised by absortion, enclosure volume is the biggest influence on bass-end accuracy.
But in a guitar cab internal reflections are not damped, and play a big role in shaping the cabinet's sound. Different dimensions change the cancellation and reinforcement frequencies of internal reflections, changing the tonal character even if volume is the same.
The slant makes a difference too, since it distributes the standing waves it reflects in a much more complex pattern than parallel panels do.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
Omega, you do know that there are guitar cabinets that have internal dampening? While that may not be the case in Mesa Boogie, its certainly something that is used, there are also a lot of guitarists that add some to their cabinets as well. I just felt like I should share that (for what reason I really don't know 
), even though in the case of Recto Vs Stiletto, you summed it up perfectly, the angle of the speakers changes the reflection (cancellation/addition) inside the cabinet because their isn't any dampening.
), even though in the case of Recto Vs Stiletto, you summed it up perfectly, the angle of the speakers changes the reflection (cancellation/addition) inside the cabinet because their isn't any dampening.
Omega_Void
Your Eventual Destroyer
I vaguely recall hearing Basson cabs made a thing of it, years back. I figured a little may get used on some cabs to tame 'em down a bit.
Still more the exception than the rule AFAIK, but worth pointing out.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
Avatar does it as well with their vintage series, and they actually use rockwool, I was impressed when I found out, not sure of other brands specifically because I haven't pulled many cabinets apart. After adding it myself to one of my cabinets and having one come standard, I can say, it doesn't do anything dramatic to the tone, if anything at all, only real thing noticeable that happens is you don't get the chorusy hollow sound on Artificial Harmonics and higher pitched notes and the low end is a lot more in your face and focused. Neither one sounds better than the other, just comes down to more preference as dampening gives a more focused sound where no dampening is more open and three dimensional sounding from the standing waves/chorus effect. In the end though, the differences are not night and day, the difference is so mild that a mic can't pick up the difference.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
Yeah but in a bogner it's just a thin ass piece of cabinet dampner, and it's only on the rear baffle.
In my cabs I was actually going to try using some sound goop stuff I use in car audio enclosures, but the cab sounds great as is so I don't want to ruin it.
In my cabs I was actually going to try using some sound goop stuff I use in car audio enclosures, but the cab sounds great as is so I don't want to ruin it.
amarshism
Member
Straight Stiletto vs Slant Recto?
I've hard to the two slant cabs and the differences are super obvious, but I've never heard a straight against a slant cab.
Mostly I'm trying to work out the differences in Mesa cabs. I have a slant Recto 4x12 and 2x12. I've heard a lot of people describe the Recto 4x12 as being looser and more scooped than the 2x12, even though my experience is the exact opposite... my slant 4x12 is tighter and has an obvious increase in midrange. My theory is that some of the 'loose and boomy' reputation of the 4x12 is coming from the straight 4x12 version, but I'm not about to drop $1000 to order one in and test it out for myself.
Thus, when someone said the Stiletto straight cab sounded a lot like the Recto slant cab I really peaked my interest. I also started wondering if the Stiletto straight cab had less of that crazy midrange than the Stiletto slant version.
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
I've owned both the Recto slant and Stiletto straight, and what I didn't like about the Stilletto straight cab is that there's no angle whatsoever to the speaker baffle, unlike a Marshall straight cab, so the high frequencies are directed at about knee-level. I sold my Stiletto straight, and if I ever buy another, I'll get a slant so that some of the high frequencies are directed at ear level.
The Stiletto cab was a little more dry and boxy sounding to my ears... A little fuller in the low mids maybe and without the low end of the Recto cab.
The Stiletto cab was a little more dry and boxy sounding to my ears... A little fuller in the low mids maybe and without the low end of the Recto cab.
Nope, and I have no ability to record at a quality level that would capture it.
I don't know if the looseness would translate through a mic. It's not a huge difference... more like one of those "feel" things you'd only notice if you're accustomed to one cab and you change to another.
The midrange is more obvious. I even tried setting my 2x12 on an angle to see if the 4x12 sounded more middy due to the top two speakers being angled up, but side by side the slant 4x12 is more aggressive in mids while the 2x12 is smoother (ie, less mids).
That's not a knock on the 2x12 either... just accepting it for what it is. I actually prefer the 2x12 with my Mark specifically because it's a little more scooped... the Mark already has plenty of midrange and the 2x12 gives it a little more laid back/less in your face vibe.
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
Ah so your speaking about the "in the room" tone rather than it under a mic in a recording situation?
Yes. Part of the reason I come here is to learn about recording... however I'm totally unable to contribute at this point.
I only bring up this topic because this forum is also the largest collection of Mesa cab/speaker nerds I've come across and some of the older threads on this forum have totally changed the way I listen to those cabs.
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
Ive searched along the whole recto vs stiletto vs 4x12 vs 2x12 thing...and ive come to the conclusion that no matter how much you read you will always find arguments on every side depending who you speak to and where you look....which is a pain in the arse considering im in a position to purchase one if I sell my current cab!
The issue, as always, is that tone is subjective. One guy thinks something too loose, the next guy thinks the exact same setup is too tight. Add in differences in skill, experience, and playing environment (in bedroom vs on stage) and you'll never get anyone to agree 100% on everything.
FWIW... I love the Recto 4x12. I had one years ago until I sold it and went Orange. I thought I'd made an upgrade, however after rocking them for a few years I rocked another Recto cab and my jaw hit the floor over how much better it sounded. I spent a couple of months agonizing over the decision to go Stiletto or Recto 4x12... I didn't want too scooped, but I didn't want to loose the smooth attack I'd heard in that cab when my jaw hit the floor. I went Recto 4x12 and haven't been disappointed.
I'd like a Stiletto 4x12 as well... partly out of curiosity, and partly because it's nice to have options.
Omega_Void
Your Eventual Destroyer
All true. Plus, the exact same setup...isn't.
Manufacturing differences mean two builds of the same speaker can have very different behaviour, even if they roll off the production line right next to each other. Particularly under large excursions, when you crank the amp.
Plus variations in the gain of individual tubes, changing headroom and overall linearity.
Plus the tolerance on pot values (plus or minus 20% is common) -- the same dial settings are not the same either!
Folks often seem to underestimate the differences in guitars as well.
This can all add up to situations where apparently identical setups are really quite different.
