Christian Black Metal!

[James Murphy]

I'm a christian. For me it's a real spiritual thing, it helps me lead my life in a way that I feel good about it, and with a purpose I feel good about. I've been raised christian, and my parents told me I needed to join to church until 14, after that I could make my own desicions. Which I did, I left church and christianity behind me. Then on the age of 21 I was curious about certain things, quietly went to some services, sat far in the back just observing. And at a certain moment, I feel I had my own personal spiritual experience. This leads my to be a christian. I hate the word "religion". There are some many idiot christians out there that destroy the reputation of christians like me.

Now I'm in a band that has 5 members in there, that are all christian. When we write lyrics, it's always about personal experiences, and since we lead a spiritual life, automatically you can expect that there CAN(!) be lyrics that contain a christian context. The same is the other way around, if a anti-christian writes lyrics from inside, you can't expect the person to leave his own thoughts and feeling about christianity on the background, simply because that is his believe or conviction.

I don't see the problem with christians making metal. There are deffinatelly some bands out there that show that Extol, Zao, Norma Jean..
I've played with Mortification about 2 years ago, they were a big deal in the 90's, because it was new back then..

Anyhow, this whole discussion about death, trash and whatever metal can't be christian I don't understand. I think the classification of the music is more dependant on the MUSIC then the LYRICS...but that's just me..

But offcourse Black metal was way more then just making music, it was more about being black metal then actually making black metal music. So I sort of understand that whole case...

For christians that enjoy metal it's also very difficult to get accepted by fellow christians. I've had people say to me that God hates my because I listen en enjoy this music, which is pretty heavy to take. And yes those people are idiots in my eyes.

sounds to me like that enforced christianity your parents subjected you to did it's work in the end. sure, you rebelled for several years... but somehow, rather than just developing your own inner spirituality and moral code, you felt compelled back to churches... where smug, judgemental christians can belittle you by telling you that "god hates you" because of the music you like... pssshhhhh, away with that nonsense.

i submit to you that you're not really a christian at all... but a seeker of comfort, guidance, and knowledge... but you don't need it from those idiots, nor can they truly give it, as they have precious little of either commodity themselves. in any case, the consolations they offer are burdened with, and conditional upon, their requirements of you.

no, emancipate yourself from that thuggish cult again, as soon as possible. find your own spirituality, develop your own moral center, and turn to science for knowledge... it's far more healthy.

besides, secular and black metal are better anyway,

 

[Felix Neumann]

sounds to me like that enforced christianity your parents subjected you to did it's work in the end. sure, you rebelled for several years... but somehow, rather than just developing your own inner spirituality and moral code, you felt compelled back to churches... where smug, judgemental christians can belittle you by telling you that "god hates you" because of the music you like... pssshhhhh, away with that nonsense.

i submit to you that you're not really a christian at all... but a seeker of comfort, guidance, and knowledge... you don't need it from those idiots, and they have precious little, if any, of either commodity to give.

no, emancipate yourself from that thuggish cult again, as soon as possible. find your own spirituality, develop your own moral center, and turn to science for knowledge... it's far more healthy.

+ 10000

I agree absolutely!

I've had people say to me that God hates my because I listen en enjoy this music, which is pretty heavy to take.

This is sick! I grew up in a christian family and as I went into Metal (as I was 11 years old), outrage was immense! The reason why I left Christianity, was because they wanted to forbid it to me. This is no FREEDOM! And freedom is one of the precious elements in my life.

Nobody needs Christianity!

I don't have faith in faith
I don't believe in belief
You can call me faithless
But I still cling to hope
And I believe in love
That's faith enough for me

Neil Peart

 

[slashvanyoung]

For me, black metal just comes down to the musical traits. The people who started this whole genre (like the Norwegian bands of the second wave) and the people who inspired them (proto bm and dm bands like Celtic Frost) are hardly retarded devil worshippers at all, some not even Satanists in the original humanistic sense . Most of them used this image just to coquet with it, as a form of rebellion. There are way less people who actually practise Satanism or "devil worship" in black metal than you'd might think.

And it's not like Satanism and "devil's worship" is an exclusive trait to black metal. Just think about Deicide, Venom, early Slayer etc.

 

[James Murphy]

I don't have faith in faith
I don't believe in belief
You can call me faithless
But I still cling to hope
And I believe in love
That's faith enough for me

Neil Peart

always LOVED that lyric.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Yeah Felix, great Rush quote!

I love me some black metal, especially the rawer, less modern sounding stuff, but DAMN it's such a hypocrite genre. Every time I hear a black metal band raving about "Satan" or the "devil", promoting their non-Christianity, I can't help but to facepalm. You're worshipping or promoting something that's been established as a part of Christianity. So if you believe in the devil then you ARE a Christian, dumbfuck.

There are only few people in the black metal scene who I'm really taking serious.

 

[lilhermiejobo]

It is true that music can be very powerful, given the right combination. I am a Christian in the literal sense based on scriptures teaching about the life of Christ. I am not, however, conventional in terms of lifestyle as a perceived (extremist/stereotypical) Christian (the type that I often read about here on the forum). The type of people who, unfortunately, live out of fear rather than love.
I appreciate many different styles of music, but, ultimately love metal. I've always been a bit puzzled by the "metal is from the devil" mentality, especially from other believers I've met and spoken with. Realistically, based on the Christian fundamental belief that God is the creator of the universe... how does 1 particular style of music NOT fall into that category?
When asked that question, many of the Christians I've spoken with soon change their tone from "That music is from satan" to "Well, I just dont listen to that type of stuff. Its not really my thing."
Which is fair enough and a much more rational option than to make absurd claims condemning the use of overdriven, high-gain guitar amplifiers, double bass and powerful, passionate vocals.

I have to agree with you, James, regarding what you said about secular and black metal being better, anyway.
When I was a new Christian I was passionate about finding good Christian Metal bands and while there are a few, there just aren't many that I found to be worth listening to. While it may have a spiritual appeal, the market is simply much, much smaller than the secular market. I haven't researched the numbers, but it doesn't take much time to figure out the Christian Metal market, simply put, doesn't have the numbers to compete for my listening time when compared to the secular market.

 

[Felix Neumann]

always LOVED that lyric.

The entire Rush album is awesome Lyrics are intelligent and very wise based on life experience, I think. And to be honest, I much prefer this kind of vocals, than some "Panzerdivision christ raping" lyrics. This has much more impact, without trying to be evil

 

[James Murphy]

I am a Christian in the literal sense based on scriptures teaching about the life of Christ.

suggested reading: "Jesus, Interrupted" by Bart D. Ehrman, PhD

"Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude."

 

[grywolf627]

Okay...really...enough is enough. A guy says he's a christian, and then...as always on this board...is lectured about how he is wrong. I mean, really...when was the last time anyone saw a christian on this board try to lecture non-christians...trying to prove to them that they are wrong and that christianity is right? I don't recall seeing this any time in recent history. So, why this incessant need to prove people wrong and try to force your ideals? When christians do this, preaching their ideals to others (and many do...over zealously), people react badly. "How dare they preach their religious non-sense to me. Keep it to yourself." But non-christians around here don't hesitate to do the same thing. Pointing out how ridiculous they are, and then will throw countless books and articles at them to try and convince them they are wrong. So, why this double standard? Why this hypocrisy? Why this need to try and convince others you are right and they are wrong? It's not possible to just let people be, have their own beliefs, and everyone to mind their own business?

Now, I myself have grown tired and disillusioned with most organized religious establishments (not just christianity) for the epic levels of brain washing and brain "non-usage" that goes on. If someone asks me what church I belong to these days, I say I belong to the church of Mark (that does believe in God and still holds many christian ideals, and thinking for yourself...using that brain that was given to you, instead of following like sheep). But, if people are happy in their beliefs and don't try to force them on others, why can't we just let them be content in their ways?

So, now let the lectures begin on how wrong I am, and how I misunderstand everything. Pfff. Whatever. I've said my piece.

 

[GeertSamuel]

sounds to me like that enforced christianity your parents subjected you to did it's work in the end. sure, you rebelled for several years... but somehow, rather than just developing your own inner spirituality and moral code, you felt compelled back to churches... where smug, judgemental christians can belittle you by telling you that "god hates you" because of the music you like... pssshhhhh, away with that nonsense.

i submit to you that you're not really a christian at all... but a seeker of comfort, guidance, and knowledge... but you don't need it from those idiots, nor can they truly give it, as they have precious little of either commodity themselves. in any case, the consolations they offer are burdened with, and conditional upon, their requirements of you.

no, emancipate yourself from that thuggish cult again, as soon as possible. find your own spirituality, develop your own moral center, and turn to science for knowledge... it's far more healthy.

besides, secular and black metal are better anyway,

I can completelly agree that "christian" metal in general just sucks...

Anyhow..I don't get it with the "forced christianity" by parents. It never felt forced. I've investigated in a lot of things, took a look into science, juddaism and some other things. And for about 6 years I've done nothing on it, cause I couldn't care less.

I am a real christian, I accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and saviour. I don't have to go to church to be a christian, i don't have to read the bible to be a christian, but it just makes me feel good.

I sometimes don't understand why people bother so much about people chosing a spiritual path, and if it happens to be christianity, start bad mouthing it.

I'm not here on this board saying "James, you heathen man, follow christ or die".

Why should I leave my "so called" cult. Just because it happens to be christianity it's a cult?

Athiests, Jews, Moslims, non-believers, non-spiritual people, I accept them all, I have no problem with their choices, I'm not anything better then them, I'm just me, choosing my path in my spiritual life. Is that really so bad that it just happens to be christianity?

During my life as a christian I feel sometimes disgraced about the actions of other christians, who do not life a spiritual life, but follow a religion lead by most of the times a moron, which actually is like a cult!

You have 2 groups of christian. Cult-followers, yes! and Spiritual people. I count myself to the 2nd group.

I despise people saying: "God hates gays", "Thank God for dead soldiers"..etc.etc..

So James, how do you see my spiritual path as being in a cult?

 

[Nuno Filipe]

I really dont see the point in arguing about religion. As a non christian I have the same point of view of James but trying to arquing why one position is better than other it´s pointless. The people who believe in god are grown and they have capabilities to make his own judgments and achieve is own conclusions. Why try to be a iluminated and say who is wrong and who is right?
The people should live as they want to live and believe in what they want to believe, if they are good about herself it´s what matters. And no one should say that their faith doesn´t mean nothing and its all a bunch of illusions and bla... bla... That´s bullshit.

 

[James Murphy]

ha ha.. i just love stirring up christians and their sympathizers.. it's fun to me... so greywolf, piss off , and funky, even if jesus existed, he himself (if you go by the bible) didn't consider himself divine (except for in the last of the canonical gospels, John, which flies in direct contradiction to the first 3.. Mark, Matthew, and Luke). so if the people that created the jesus mythology can't even agree about his divinity, how can you be so sure? and why is agriculture-based bronze-age mythology so damn important to everyone?

aaanyway, this IS a discussion forum... and i like spurring discussion on this topic, it's interesting to me. you could say i have a morbid fascination with it, and with the mechanics of such ideologies in general.

as Christopher Hitches would say, "religion poisons everything"

 

[SocialNumb]

Fuck yeah! a Jebus thread! Gotta agree with James, I love me some religion threads. I'll go a little further and say I do this every day. Mainly on YouTube. My family calls me the anti-christ. (They're moderate Catholics) I would absolutely love to see all religions crumble. Faith destroyed.

How exactly did sea/fresh water life survive Noah's flood?

 

[GeertSamuel]

ha ha.. i just love stirring up christians and their sympathizers.. it's fun to me... so greywolf, piss off , and funky, even if jesus existed, he himself (if you go by the bible) didn't consider himself divine (except for in the last of the canonical gospels, John, which flies in direct contradiction to the first 3.. Mark, Matthew, and Luke). so if the people that created the jesus mythology can't even agree about his divinity, how can you be so sure? and why is agriculture-based bronze-age mythology so damn important to everyone?

aaanyway, this IS a discussion forum... and i like spurring discussion on this topic, it's interesting to me. you could say i have a morbid fascination with it, and with the mechanics of such ideologies in general.

as Christopher Hitches would say, "religion poisons everything"

Is christianity the only religion that bothers you that much? Or do you hate religion in general?

Fuck yeah! a Jebus thread! Gotta agree with James, I love me some religion threads. I'll go a little further and say I do this every day. Mainly on YouTube. My family calls me the anti-christ. (They're moderate Catholics) I would absolutely love to see all religions crumble. Faith destroyed.

How exactly did sea/fresh water life survive Noah's flood?

How do you think the modern world would look without ANY religion?

 

[lilhermiejobo]

Fuck yeah! a Jebus thread! Gotta agree with James, I love me some religion threads. I'll go a little further and say I do this every day. Mainly on YouTube. My family calls me the anti-christ. (They're moderate Catholics) I would absolutely love to see all religions crumble. Faith destroyed.

How exactly did sea/fresh water life survive Noah's flood?

I wasn't aware claims have been made, especially in the bible, that sea/fresh water creatures/life survived. Is this something you've read somewhere?

 

[SocialNumb]

Is christianity the only religion that bothers you that much? Or do you hate religion in general?



How do you think the modern world would look without ANY religion?

A lot more advanced, civil and less crowded. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. We simply don't know.

 

[STINNETT]

How do you think the modern world would look without ANY religion?

 

[SocialNumb]

I wasn't aware claims have been made, especially in the bible, that sea/fresh water creatures/life survived. Is this something you've read somewhere?

Oh my bad, I thought I saw something they call a blue whale in mythology in the ocean. I must have been on acid.

 

[Felix Neumann]

Actually...I just wanted to make fun of "Christian Black Metal" a little bit I had no idea, what avalanche began to roll. My personal opinion is, the world needs no religion, no christianity. Morality and Humanity existed already before Christianity (maybe someone knows it better than me), as far as I know, the Greeks had some good working social guidelines.

 

[TheDriller]

How do you think the modern world would look without ANY religion?

also, the image Stinnet posted.