Christian metal

[10293847]

"Lyrics don't fucking matter."

So you've never bothered to read lyrics or have never become inspired by them? I think what you were trying to say is that you don't need to have lyrics to enjoy music, or you can simply ignore lyrics altogether. And I, of course, agree with this. But lyrics, if done well, add to music. And of course, vocals are another instrument. So you can look at it that way as well.

 

[Zhou Tai 04]

"Lyrics don't fucking matter."

So you've never bothered to read lyrics or have never become inspired by them? I think what you were trying to say is that you don't need to have lyrics to enjoy music, or you can simply ignore lyrics altogether. And I, of course, agree with this. But lyrics, if done well, add to music. And of course, vocals are another instrument. So you can look at it that way as well.

I agree; that is also how I view the subject of lyrical content.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Me as well.

@Zhou Tai, I applaud your efforts to legitimize and spread information on Christian bands. I think many of them are overlooked and ignored, and it's people like you who are working to make an equal playing ground for bands of any belief system and expose the metal world to their music, good or bad(it's up to the listeners now). Don't feel like you have to defend Christianilty or the bands you listed against any opposition. There is a Philosophy forum where the merits or failings of religion can be discussed. Let's use this thread for information. It's a thread that I feel has been long overdue.

 

[circus_brimstone]

There is a Philosophy forum where the merits or failings of religion can be discussed. Let's use this thread for information. It's a thread that I feel has been long overdue.

.

 

[Cynical]

when was metal inherently hateful and evil? you are indeed ignorant if you believe that to be true.

Actually, no, anyone who disagrees with me is the ignorant one. From the start, metal set out to portray and glorify what JCH society considers "evil" out of a realization that this "evil" is what strengthened life and allowed growth. JCH society, on the other hand, stifles this realization out of fear, thus making it incompatable.

how is christianity against metal? it flat out isn't. perhaps you don't understand that one can be a huge metal fan and also devoted to God.

See above.

i'm not going to bother replying to each and every little thing. if you want to discuss this further, take it to the Philosophy forum where i'll happily reply. i don't want to derail the intent of this thread as an information source, not a debate. debate in the philosophy forum. i'll not read any further discussion of this in this thread. please keep it on topic.

This relates to music; therefore, this is a more appropriate place than the philosophy forum.

I was only using that description because I was in somewhat of a hurry. Since you are apparently not satisfied with that (and wrongly proceeded to mock me and my knowledge of music for no reason--this is another instance of people extremely biased against anything related to Christianity; when they run out of legitimate arguments, they resort to mudslinging tactics), here is a short biography of Crimson Moonlight that I wrote a few weeks ago:

*long ass description*

Through that whole biography, there was no *musical* description given; all that I gained from that description is what instruments that they used, whether the production was "good" or not, and that it was "brutal", "atmospheric", and had "awesome guitar melodies", which as descriptions don't really mean anything. For an example of actual description, refer to these:
http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=12072 -top review
http://www.metal-archives.com/userreviews.php?id=5966&nickname=Cheeses_Priced -all of this guy's reviews

 

[Demilich]

Dude, Black Sabbath are Christians and they were one of the originators of metal! So it wasn't ALWAYS anti-Christian right from the beginning!

 

[Cynical]

Dude, Black Sabbath are Christians and they were one of the originators of metal! So it wasn't ALWAYS anti-Christian right from the beginning!

I always laugh any time someone brings up the "Sabbath were christian!" argument; apparently they never heard this song:

Well I don't want no preacher telling me about the god in the sky
No I don't want no one to tell me where I'm gonna go when I die
I wanna live my life with no people telling me what to do
I just believe in myself, 'cause no one else is true
...
So believe what I tell you, it's the only way to fight in the end
Just believe in yourself, you know you really shouldn't have to pretend
don't let those empty people try and interfere with your mind
Just live your life and leave them all behind

from Under the Sun, off of Volume 4

Furthermore, the "christian" songs tended to refer to how god had forsaken and failed humanity. Not exactly christian.

 

[Funeral Portrait]

Metal is about having a good time and making fun heavy fuckin music. Anyone who gets all hung up on this "gotta be evil" bullshit is no better than the average mall goth trying to scare people.

 

[Cynical]

Metal is about having a good time and making fun heavy fuckin music. Anyone who gets all hung up on this "gotta be evil" bullshit is no better than the average mall goth trying to scare people.

Yeah, because, you know, if you're just trying to make "rocking fun music", the way to go is obviously to use a relatively harsh aesthetic that lacks much of the hook of the rock that it broke away from.

Oh wait...

 

[Zhou Tai 04]

@Cynical--Sorry for not being a professional music reviewer. Geez. Like I said, it was only a "brief" biography of them; if I wanted to go into more detail, I would, but most people would not take the time to read through it if it was much longer. And I am also not a professional musician, so I would not be able to write descriptions as detailed as someone who is because I do not know all the musical terms and techniques and whatnot. In spite of this, you have no reason to say that I'm too stupid to tell what good music is. Everyone I know that has listened to the music I like has said that I have excellent taste, both Christians and non-Christians alike (even people who don't listen to metal at all have said that they like it, although they don't care much for the vocals, but that is to be expected).

I believe that metal is not inherently "evil." My view of metal is that it is only a style of music, and you can use it however you wish. Who are you to say that all metal must be used for such purposes as you describe? You are not the person who invented music. Therefore you have no power to declare what directions music can and cannot go. That should be up to the musicians themselves.

Also, the ability to play music is NOT dependant on what your religion is. The only thing realistically affected by religion is lyrical content, and even then to different extents. Most Christian metal bands do not have preachy lyrics at all; I can actually only think of a few Christian metal bands who have very preachy lyrics. This is good to a certain extent, because some bands like to be more straightforward. However, I enjoy lyrics that are more thought out and poetic/metaphorical in style a lot more.

 

[Demilich]

Furthermore, the "christian" songs tended to refer to how god had forsaken and failed humanity. Not exactly christian.

I think it was in the DVD, "Sabbath Story: Volume 1" or something, that they talk about how they're (or were) practicing Christians. Look at the lyrics to "After Forever" off of Master of Reality. Sounds like pretty straight out "you're an idiot if you deny God" lyrics, and they were written by Tony Iommi, widely acknowledged as one of the most important musicians in the history of metal. Maybe not all of them are Christian, and it was Geezer who wrote most of the lyrics, so he might be the exception, but the crosses they wear and the interviews on whichever DVD I own say that at least some of them are!

Also, another example of a fucking good metal band with Christian leanings:
Manilla Road! I don't see many people mention it, and I'm going from the lyrics of the Crystal Logic album alone, but songs like The Ram, The Riddle Master, Crystal Logic, etc. touch on topics such as denying Satan, fighting daemon hordes with swords of fire and light, acknowledging that the souls of every human are equally important and precious, etc.

I'm not a religious person myself, but I don't outright hate Christianity, just the organized, institutional manifestation of it, which has done a lot of bad over the years, and continues to contradict itself and try to hide its past. I don't limit my metal listening by refusing to acknowledge anti-Christian any other kind of bands. If you honestly think that most of the bands on that list suck, fair enough, but some of the other things said in this thread are pretty damned funny!

 

[Cynical]

@Cynical--Sorry for not being a professional music reviewer. Geez. Like I said, it was only a "brief" biography of them; if I wanted to go into more detail, I would, but most people would not take the time to read through it if it was much longer. And I am also not a professional musician, so I would not be able to write descriptions as detailed as someone who is because I do not know all the musical terms and techniques and whatnot. In spite of this, you have no reason to say that I'm too stupid to tell what good music is. Everyone I know that has listened to the music I like has said that I have excellent taste, both Christians and non-Christians alike (even people who don't listen to metal at all have said that they like it, although they don't care much for the vocals, but that is to be expected).

I didn't ask for a biography. I asked for a description of the music in terms of more than just sound, which shouldn't be difficult, even for someone who isn't a professional (none of the reviews linked were done by professionals).

You have fucking terrible taste going by the list on the first post. Listen to the first two Massacra albums and learn what good metal actually is, and what makes it good (hint- it's not production, or genreral "style" that the band plays in).

I believe that metal is not inherently "evil." My view of metal is that it is only a style of music, and you can use it however you wish. Who are you to say that all metal must be used for such purposes as you describe? You are not the person who invented music. Therefore you have no power to declare what directions music can and cannot go. That should be up to the musicians themselves.

Every aesthetic shift in the genre has been to push it to a more evil sound- from Black Sabbath thinking the hippie movement was degenerate, and to the speed metal bands of the early '80s, to, obviously, the BM and DM bands of the later '80s. It does not make sense to use such an aesthetic for music that attempts to portray "good" things; there is no context in which it wouldn't be horribly confused.

Also, the ability to play music is NOT dependant on what your religion is. The only thing realistically affected by religion is lyrical content, and even then to different extents. Most Christian metal bands do not have preachy lyrics at all; I can actually only think of a few Christian metal bands who have very preachy lyrics. This is good to a certain extent, because some bands like to be more straightforward. However, I enjoy lyrics that are more thought out and poetic/metaphorical in style a lot more.

Music is an attempt to communicate; it's pretty much impossible to communicate a message glorifying so-called "evil" if you're openly christian and do a decent job of it.

Demilich- So, one song off of the worst of their first 5 albums was christian, weighted against numerous songs that spoke of the occult and the anti christian song I posted? Wow, such strong evidence.

The cross has a satanic meaning as well as a christian one- after all, the cross IS what killed christ (hence why bands like Funeral Mist and Ofermod use it non-inverted).

Manilla Road fucking sucks. It's no surprise that they're christian.

 

[Demilich]

Cynical, I'm beginning to question whether you have eyes OR ears! They said they were Christian on their DVD and that the occult stuff was just interesting/fun/different at the time!

As for Manilla Road, I'd be interested to hear a description of how they suck? Not trying to say that they can be objectively proven to be good, I just want to hear what you have to say on them.

 

[Cynical]

Everything I've heard by Manilla Road sounded like a hybrid of '70s Priest and stuff I'd hear on the local classic rock station.

I don't particularly care about what Sabbath says about what they did 30 years ago now that they're all washed up. At the time, they were most definitely not inclined towards a "christian" outlook, whether they want to admit this or not.

The Helstar that you're listening to is truly badass.

 

[Cythraul]

BOYCOT CHRISTIAN METAL
http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/christian_metal.html

I am in no way a fan of Christian metal but...

Holy shit, man! When are you going to stop letting anus.com do all the thinking for you? You have no clue how fundamentally stupid and irrational your shit, rehashed views are. Your gimmick isn't very convincing; go back to the 3rd grade, you fucktard.

 

[Cynical]

I am in no way a fan of Christian metal but...

Holy shit, man! When are you going to stop letting anus.com do all the thinking for you? You have no clue how fundamentally stupid and irrational your shit, rehashed views are. Your gimmick isn't very convincing; go back to the 3rd grade, you fucktard.

When you want to look intelligent, but can't come up with anything to say that actually relates to any idea being discussed, making an ad-hominem based on someone not being "individualistic enough" always works.

 

[Demilich]

I am in no way a fan of Christian metal but...

Holy shit, man! When are you going to stop letting anus.com do all the thinking for you? You have no clue how fundamentally stupid and irrational your shit, rehashed views are. Your gimmick isn't very convincing; go back to the 3rd grade, you fucktard.

Glad someone said it, 'cause I'm sure as hell too lazy to do it! Thing is, even operating under the assumption that ANUS is correct on the issue, all they're doing is whining about metal going into territory they don't want or didn't expect it to go! Metal can be much more ( or less ) than a form of rebellion/freedom from limiting ideologies! It's MUSIC, any extra weight you tack on to it is superfluous and ultimately amounts to bickering between parties of different opinions on the excess baggage being applied to the music.

 

[Zhou Tai 04]

Music is an attempt to communicate; it's pretty much impossible to communicate a message glorifying so-called "evil" if you're openly christian and do a decent job of it.

I was not talking about this. You seem to think that just because Christians can play metal it must automatically mean that they suck at it. This seems to be the root of all your objections to Christian metal, and therefore your arguments against it simply cannot be taken seriously by anyone.

 

[Episteme]

Cynical, do everyone a favour because no one likes you here. Shoot yourself.

 

[Cythraul]

When you want to look intelligent, but can't come up with anything to say that actually relates to any idea being discussed, making an ad-hominem based on someone not being "individualistic enough" always works.

I'm resorting to ad-hominems because I extremely dislike your pretensious internet persona and your tired posturing. I really don't care to argue about the topic at hand because I really don't give a shit about it. There's much to be valued in an individualistic mindset, child. It means you'll avoid being spoonfed shit ideas espoused by half-educated pseudo-philosophers. Yes that's right, your viewpoints are fundamentally shit. Get over yourself.

edit: I wanna kind of get a feel for your posting style so that I might understand your perspective a little better. Is this how you do it? www.anus.com