Christian metal

[no country for old wainds]

My view is that black metal was written with opposition to Christianity at its centre, right from the beginning, and evolved with that as its defining factor.

 

[Cythraul]

you're all my pals

That's true.

 

[AsModEe]

My view is that black metal was written with opposition to Christianity at its centre, right from the beginning, and evolved with that as its defining factor.

Yes, you're right, but nothing can prevent someone from using black metal in a different direction. It will remain black metal because of the music.

 

[Fourka]

Yes, you're right, but nothing can prevent someone from using black metal in a different direction. It will remain black metal because of the music.

It doesn't make sense to create music like that. The way it works is, that music is the outcome of the feelings, and certainly they way it doesn't work is to try to fit feelings in a certain kind of music. The outcome then would be possibly bad.

 

[Blodsmert]

It's subjective you dolts!

Black metal only sounds evil (ooo scary) because you are conditioned that way.

Rap music incites more crime than black metal, so that's far more evil. It also depends what you consider evil, it being relative. Societal rejects wearing make-up screeching about satan, or millionaire sociopaths, massively influential, encouraging children to take drugs and cap muthafuckas, whilst being disrespectful to bitches.

 

[Funeral Portrait]

^ ooooh

 

[etotheipiequalsminus1]

It's subjective you dolts!

you're objectively negroid

 

[ProjectedBlack]

It doesn't make sense to create music like that. The way it works is, that music is the outcome of the feelings, and certainly they way it doesn't work is to try to fit feelings in a certain kind of music. The outcome then would be possibly bad.

Black Metal sounds dark, not neccasarily "evil". I understand the point you're making, however you're being completely biased, Christianity can be a religion that deals with a lot of dark topics, so why can't it fit the dark feel of Black Metal? Believe it or not, it's just not all about "Praise Jesus!"

The same goes for Death metal, in another thread it was said that Christianity goes against Death metal because Death metal is essentially about "chaos, death and destruction", Christianity can deal with those topics as well.

There's a broad variety of topics discussed in different pespectives in metal music in general, to me metal music and culture is about a certain sense of freedom and isn't confined to just hatred and evil, if you think it should be confined to that, I say you're listening to the music for the wrong reasons.

 

[no country for old wainds]

It's subjective you dolts!

Black metal only sounds evil (ooo scary) because you are conditioned that way.

Rap music incites more crime than black metal, so that's far more evil. It also depends what you consider evil, it being relative. Societal rejects wearing make-up screeching about satan, or millionaire sociopaths, massively influential, encouraging children to take drugs and cap muthafuckas, whilst being disrespectful to bitches.

1. "Evil" was obviously meant in context to Christianity.
2. Nobody suggested it wasn't because we're conditioned that way, more that we're all conditioned similarly because in all our subjective little worlds music has evolved in exactly the same way.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

My view is that black metal was written with opposition to Christianity at its centre, right from the beginning, and evolved with that as its defining factor.

And that's what progressive music is about. Taking what's supposedly "defined" and changing it.

 

[etotheipiequalsminus1]

And that's what progressive music is about. Taking what's supposedly "defined" and changing it.

is that you in the avatar.

 

[no country for old wainds]

And that's what progressive music is about. Taking what's supposedly "defined" and changing it.

If it's no longer based on what defined it, you have to call it something different, or labels become useless.

 

[no country for old wainds]

To quote the beautiful VileRancour:

Musically, Darkthrone is black metal.

- "But you just said black metal is not a purely musical definition! MAKE UP YOUR MIND YOU BM ELITIST / PROZAK-FELLATOR / ________ !"

So here's a relatively simple way of putting it, with the hope that it'll get through: black metal is the expression of a worldview / spirit / archetype / whatever you feel like calling it, from which the musical and ideological/lyrical formulas follow. Musically, this ideal CAN channel itself through several musical forms of metal, which are equipped for its expression, and that's what it generally tended to do for the first few years of its existence. Hence, certain bands - chiefly from that time period - might be black metal even when playing a form of NWOBHM, thrash, death/thrash, and so on so forth. Now, as this ideal progresses and solidifies itself, it may form NEW modes of sonic expression within metal, which are entirely its own, and thus are called purely "black metal" in the musical sense. Hence, the example of Darkthrone.

What you propose (strip away the Darkthrone ideology, and discuss the sound-waves) is a nice exercise in "what if", but has no meaning in reality - if the ideal/spirit did not exist, then Darkthrone's music wouldn't sound the way it does. That is, unless we are talking about mere imitators, who simply ape the sonic formula without having the spirit at its core, in which case the "pseudo-" tag is more than sufficient.

and an elaboration from Grishnak:

Agreed, no one denies that there are bands who sound distinctly black metal. Only that black metal is defined by that sound. Some people like to make the irrational (but understandable, I guess) leap from point A, that there are bands who sound black metal and fit no where else, to point B, that black metal is a certain sound that only these bands encompass (not realizing that doing so is a fallacy in that it rejects a whole slew of bands, in addition to having no common ground.) It's because of that fallacy that we have to look somewhere else, to the one place where we can find common ground between every black metal band, and also logically exclude certain bands who don't fit; that's the certain spirit that you talked about (which I define only as ideology as a mindset... again another common fallacy arises when people make the jump from the word "ideology" to "politics" or "lyrics.")

 

[Fourka]

Black Metal sounds dark, not neccasarily "evil". I understand the point you're making, however you're being completely biased, Christianity can be a religion that deals with a lot of dark topics, so why can't it fit the dark feel of Black Metal? Believe it or not, it's just not all about "Praise Jesus!"

Yes, BM does not necessarily sounds evil, but it does sound dark, however I am not quite sure about the dark side of Christianity (I read that one on the Philosopher board). As far as I know, Christianity is about giving love and stuff like that. Can someone enlighten me please about the dark side of it that if expressed can easily result in a music that sound slike DM or BM?

metal music and culture is about a certain sense of freedom and isn't confined to just hatred and evil, if you think it should be confined to that, I say you're listening to the music for the wrong reasons.

Certainly not, I listen to whatever music I like because it expresses my feelings and I like that. Whether it is evil or good, it doesn't really matter.

 

[Fourka]

And that's what progressive music is about. Taking what's supposedly "defined" and changing it.

If it is still called black metal it has to have at least the basic definition.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Yes, BM does not necessarily sounds evil, but it does sound dark, however I am not quite sure about the dark side of Christianity (I read that one on the Philosopher board). As far as I know, Christianity is about giving love and stuff like that. Can someone enlighten me please about the dark side of it that if expressed can easily result in a music that sound slike DM or BM?

Expressed? No. I think he's referring to the idea that music can merely portray, rather than actually expressing something, yet I maintain that BM was from the start, by definition, an expression against Christianity or it was a portrayal of an alternative to Christianity.

 

[AsModEe]

It doesn't make sense to create music like that. The way it works is, that music is the outcome of the feelings, and certainly they way it doesn't work is to try to fit feelings in a certain kind of music. The outcome then would be possibly bad.

My definition of black metal doesn't take feelings into consideration.

 

[Zhou Tai 04]

Here are some examples of lyrics from some of my favorite Christian metal bands:

Antestor-Depressed
Sympathy-Surrounded by the Dead
Extol-Reflections of a Broken Soul
Crimson Moonlight-Eyes of Beauty
Kekal-Vox Diaboli
Acoustic Torment-Sick World
Lengsel-Coat of Arms
Indwelling-The Breath of He Who Kills
Immortal Souls-Suicidalive
Sanctifica-Dark Desires
Ashen Mortality-Sleepless Remorse
Embodyment-20 Tongues
Lament-Chains of Darkness
Paramaecium-My Failing Heart
Slechtvalk-In Hell I Burn
Underoath-Act of Depression
Virgin Black-Beloved
Zao-Ravage Ritual

 

[Zhou Tai 04]

Yes, BM does not necessarily sounds evil, but it does sound dark, however I am not quite sure about the dark side of Christianity (I read that one on the Philosopher board). As far as I know, Christianity is about giving love and stuff like that. Can someone enlighten me please about the dark side of it that if expressed can easily result in a music that sound slike DM or BM?

Yes, it can.

If anyone would like to hear for themselves, I would be more than glad to send you some songs through AIM or MSN instant messenger.

 

[no country for old wainds]

You totally ignored his question.