Classical/Traditional Music

[viewerfromnihil]

@lateralus: I'll have to check his recording out, thanks.

I haven't listened to Mahler's 6th yet, but I'm sure that Bernstein has a recording of it out there. He is, after all, the self-acclaimed champion of Mahler. Bernstein in general is hit or miss though, more so than Karajan and Boulez.

edit: I'm a retard, I have Bernstein's recording of the 6th in my iTunes and I've listened to it numerous times. The conducting in it sounds good, I'm just not too crazy about Mahler's works in general. The first movement drags, I don't understand why Mahler decided to repeat his lengthy exposition. That's not to say I don't like it, I just lack the attention span. My pallete for romantic era classical music isn't fully developed either, so that has its influence. Back on the composer, Bernstein could have chosen a more "hammery" sounding hammer, but that's splitting hairs really.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

I forgot how much I enjoyed Schoenberg's Variationen fur Orchester. I wouldn't call it his best work, but it's definitely up there. That said, after this last semester and having my eyes, or ears rather, opened to classical music beyond the modern era, I do see why many out there do not like even Schoenberg's tonal works. Both his Kammersinfonie and Verklarte Nacht are very intense compared to many of works preceding them. I don't think I could count how frequently he modulates in Verklarte Nacht.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

I will read more through this thread tomorrow, but been wanting to get more into this kind of music. Recently saw a few classical concerts and was very inspired. Especially the Baroque styled ones, but Bach and Vivaldi are the only notable names I know of from this period. It's hard to research artists in this genre because there's just so much it can get really overwhelming so was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for Baroque styled composers? I apologize if there's an answer already that is somewhere on this page in advance, but I know if I read through this page now will never get any sleep.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

edit: I'm a retard, I have Bernstein's recording of the 6th in my iTunes and I've listened to it numerous times. The conducting in it sounds good, I'm just not too crazy about Mahler's works in general. The first movement drags, I don't understand why Mahler decided to repeat his lengthy exposition. That's not to say I don't like it, I just lack the attention span. My pallete for romantic era classical music isn't fully developed either, so that has its influence. Back on the composer, Bernstein could have chosen a more "hammery" sounding hammer, but that's splitting hairs really.

Listened to six or seven different versions Mahler 6 and thought Berstein's was the best. In the 60s some conductors cut out the exposition. To me, this feels unacceptable, but I guess it was considered "optional" at the time. Szell has a very good recording without the exposition.

Never really listened to Schoenburg; where do you suggest starting?

 

[viewerfromnihil]

Listened to six or seven different versions Mahler 6 and thought Berstein's was the best. In the 60s some conductors cut out the exposition. To me, this feels unacceptable, but I guess it was considered "optional" at the time. Szell has a very good recording without the exposition.

In the early Romantic era, it was common practice for composers to write in the repeat without having any expectation that it would actually be done. The repeat was a staple in Classical era Sonata Form, not so much post-Beethoven. That's mostly what surprised me when listening to Mahler's 6th. Perhaps, when the time period that Mahler was alive is considered, it could be seen as tribute to a forgone tradition. But yeah, if you listen to any of Schumann's or Schubert's symphonies or chamber compositions, the repeat is almost always written in even though it's rarely done.

Never really listened to Schoenburg; where do you suggest starting?

Verklarte Nacht is probably the best start. It was written before Schoenberg devised his twelve-tone system, so, though it is dissonant and modulates rapidly, it is tonal. It's my favorite work by him. I'm not sure if I would recommend the original string sextet format or his later transcribed string orchestra version. They're both great, so I would just go with whichever instrumentation you prefer. Probably the most comparable work that came before it was Brahm's Piano Quintet.

His Gurrelieder is a great tonal work by him as well, but only first part was written while he was still "young."

If you want to delve into his twelve-tone works, I would suggest his Variationen fur Orchester. For whatever reason, music history courses always use Perrot Lunaire, but I believe it was composed when Schoenberg turned atonal, but it was before he put the finishing touches on his twelve-tone system. Thus, it doesn't reflect his other works very well, other than the use of sprechstimme. But there are better works to hear that, such as "Ode to Napoleon Bonaparte" or "Survivor from Warsaw." I've gotten off track, but Variationen fur Orchester is definitely the best start for his twelve-tone works. It's fairly brief and very hard hitting. One listen proves any critic wrong who claims that, just by music being atonal, it cannot be called music.

Also, if you're a big fan of Mahler, I would suggest that you check out Alexander Zemlinsky. Specifically, his Lyric Symphony and Little Mermaid. He's very similar, though not quite as conservative. Interestingly, he was in a relationship with Alma Schindler before she dumped him and married Mahler. He was also Schoenberg's only formal teacher, in which he taught him counter-point.



Hey Onder, have you listened to Arthur Honegger?

 

[Lateralus14]

I will read more through this thread tomorrow, but been wanting to get more into this kind of music. Recently saw a few classical concerts and was very inspired. Especially the Baroque styled ones, but Bach and Vivaldi are the only notable names I know of from this period. It's hard to research artists in this genre because there's just so much it can get really overwhelming so was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for Baroque styled composers? I apologize if there's an answer already that is somewhere on this page in advance, but I know if I read through this page now will never get any sleep.

After those two, Handel completes the holy trinity of baroque music. Also, listen to some Corelli, pretty accessible baroque stuff.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

Wow, Handel is great thanks for the recommendations. Just downloaded Corelli, will be playing that very soon.

 

[XxÜltimetallïumxX]

I don't know any names, but I like the use of classical music in metal.

 

[Onder]

Hey Onder, have you listened to Arthur Honegger?

Not yet. I haven't been putting enough time into trying new composers out lately. What do you recommend?

 

[Onder]

Wow, Handel is great thanks for the recommendations. Just downloaded Corelli, will be playing that very soon.

Corelli has the famous christmas-y concerto.

I don't know any names, but I like the use of classical music in metal.

I don't.

 

[Onder]

Black Orifice, we started about Dvořák in another thread and I don't want to piss anybody off so I'll give you my thoughts on him here. I'm not a patriotic boy or anything but hell, I love me some Dvořák. First of all, his best concerto is the cello one. Check it out with Rostropovich or someone else like that. The violin one has a good last movement and the piano one is okay - he wasn't really a brilliant pianist or so they say.

Out of the symphonies New World is definitely the hit, or the crucial one you might say. But I've been especially enjoying the 3rd and fourth lately. They are more "rural" and may sound simplier at first, but still. 4th symphony 3rd mov. has the most amazing fucking main theme ever. I can't but imagine an opening of some epic western movie. Seriously.

EDIT: The symphonic poems are pretty famous too but I can't say I know them very well.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

Not yet. I haven't been putting enough time into trying new composers out lately. What do you recommend?

All of his symphonies are great, so the first one is probably a good start. It's very French sounding. He's a good segue between Ravel and Messiaen.

 

[matt schrauben]

Speaking of Handel. I got his 12 Grand Concertos on vinyl. I enjoy them thoroughly.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

In the early Romantic era, it was common practice for composers to write in the repeat without having any expectation that it would actually be done. The repeat was a staple in Classical era Sonata Form, not so much post-Beethoven. That's mostly what surprised me when listening to Mahler's 6th. Perhaps, when the time period that Mahler was alive is considered, it could be seen as tribute to a forgone tradition. But yeah, if you listen to any of Schumann's or Schubert's symphonies or chamber compositions, the repeat is almost always written in even though it's rarely done.

Yeah it does seem that Mahler was going for a classical structure with the 6th. Four movements. Adagio and scherzo inner movements. That said, I think the symphony sounds better with the repeat. The opening movement is very toilsome, but ends in victory. I feel like that intial victory feels more powerful when it comes after a greater amount of strife, which all functions as a better fold for the massive tragedy that ends the symphony.

Verklarte Nacht is probably the best start. It was written before Schoenberg devised his twelve-tone system, so, though it is dissonant and modulates rapidly, it is tonal. It's my favorite work by him. I'm not sure if I would recommend the original string sextet format or his later transcribed string orchestra version. They're both great, so I would just go with whichever instrumentation you prefer. Probably the most comparable work that came before it was Brahm's Piano Quintet.

His Gurrelieder is a great tonal work by him as well, but only first part was written while he was still "young."

If you want to delve into his twelve-tone works, I would suggest his Variationen fur Orchester. For whatever reason, music history courses always use Perrot Lunaire, but I believe it was composed when Schoenberg turned atonal, but it was before he put the finishing touches on his twelve-tone system. Thus, it doesn't reflect his other works very well, other than the use of sprechstimme. But there are better works to hear that, such as "Ode to Napoleon Bonaparte" or "Survivor from Warsaw." I've gotten off track, but Variationen fur Orchester is definitely the best start for his twelve-tone works. It's fairly brief and very hard hitting. One listen proves any critic wrong who claims that, just by music being atonal, it cannot be called music.

Also, if you're a big fan of Mahler, I would suggest that you check out Alexander Zemlinsky. Specifically, his Lyric Symphony and Little Mermaid. He's very similar, though not quite as conservative. Interestingly, he was in a relationship with Alma Schindler before she dumped him and married Mahler. He was also Schoenberg's only formal teacher, in which he taught him counter-point.

Thanks for the recs. I'll definitely check both of them out. Any suggested recordings?

Black Orifice, we started about Dvořák in another thread and I don't want to piss anybody off so I'll give you my thoughts on him here. I'm not a patriotic boy or anything but hell, I love me some Dvořák. First of all, his best concerto is the cello one. Check it out with Rostropovich or someone else like that. The violin one has a good last movement and the piano one is okay - he wasn't really a brilliant pianist or so they say.

Out of the symphonies New World is definitely the hit, or the crucial one you might say. But I've been especially enjoying the 3rd and fourth lately. They are more "rural" and may sound simplier at first, but still. 4th symphony 3rd mov. has the most amazing fucking main theme ever. I can't but imagine an opening of some epic western movie. Seriously.

EDIT: The symphonic poems are pretty famous too but I can't say I know them very well.

Been giving Dvorak's New World Symphony a serious listen this week. It really is worth all the hype. So lush and melodious. I know he rejected his early symphonies but that's good to hear they're nonetheless rewarding.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

Black Orifice, we started about Dvořák in another thread and I don't want to piss anybody off so I'll give you my thoughts on him here. I'm not a patriotic boy or anything but hell, I love me some Dvořák. First of all, his best concerto is the cello one. Check it out with Rostropovich or someone else like that. The violin one has a good last movement and the piano one is okay - he wasn't really a brilliant pianist or so they say.

Out of the symphonies New World is definitely the hit, or the crucial one you might say. But I've been especially enjoying the 3rd and fourth lately. They are more "rural" and may sound simplier at first, but still. 4th symphony 3rd mov. has the most amazing fucking main theme ever. I can't but imagine an opening of some epic western movie. Seriously.

EDIT: The symphonic poems are pretty famous too but I can't say I know them very well.

His cello concerto is superb, I did a brief write-up on in last semester. And don't sweat the patriotic thing, there's a reason for Charles Ives being my favorite composer. I'll have to check out his earlier symphonies sometime soon.

Yeah it does seem that Mahler was going for a classical structure with the 6th. Four movements. Adagio and scherzo inner movements. That said, I think the symphony sounds better with the repeat. The opening movement is very toilsome, but ends in victory. I feel like that intial victory feels more powerful when it comes after a greater amount of strife, which all functions as a better fold for the massive tragedy that ends the symphony.



Thanks for the recs. I'll definitely check both of them out. Any suggested recordings?

After some additional listens, I have to agree with you on the repeat. When I initially mentioned my distaste for it, I had been listening to Strauss on a daily basis for an independent study essay. His approach to orchestral works is, obviously, but also arguably in a sense, on a smaller scale and I had accustomed myself to it.


Go for anything with Boulez involved. He's great at intuiting Schoenberg's orchestration intentions. The Schoenberg Quartet also has a good recording of Verklarte Nacht.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

I'm listening to Strauss's Also sprach Zarathustra at the moment. Man, I listened to this work on a, nearly, daily basis during the last semester while doing my honors projects on it. Despite this, it's still extraordinarily hard-hitting and entertaining. I found the same to be the case with Charles Ives's Concord Sonata and his fourth symphony, which I did a similar assignment on the semester before. Verily (Kaufmann ), it is a fabulous piece of art.

 

[Lateralus14]

I've only heard An Alpine Symphony...I'll have to check it out.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Thanks for the recs, Black Orifice. I really, really like Verklarte Nacht. The Variations for Orchestra hasn't clicked as quickly, but is definitely interesting. I'll let you know what I think when I've given them some more time.

 

[Lateralus14]

Anybody know of a good recording of Mendelssohn's string symphonies? Or recommend some other string symphonies...I don't think I've heard any..

 

[viewerfromnihil]

I've only heard An Alpine Symphony...I'll have to check it out.

An Alpine Symphony is great and, arguably, his most ambitious orchestral work, but it was completed well-over a decade past Strauss's Tone Poem phase. Too, he seemed to have stepped away from a pattern of increasing harmonic complexity, which climaxed with his opera, Elektra. His departure from the romantic ethos of the extreme was in part a reaction to classical musics gradual departure from tonality, which was coming to a cusp at the early 20th century. He was appalled by this departure, resolved to distance himself from it, and, thus, write more conservatively. If you want a better example of the harmonic language which sparked his fame, listen to his earlier Tone Poems, such as the one I mentioned or Don Quixote, a Tone Poem/cello concerto.

Thanks for the recs, Black Orifice. I really, really like Verklarte Nacht. The Variations for Orchestra hasn't clicked as quickly, but is definitely interesting. I'll let you know what I think when I've given them some more time.

Awesome, that's great to hear. Verklarte Nacht, and please excuse the anecdote, was the work which opened my ears to classical music in general. If you're interested in hearing more of his tonal works, then check out his Op. 1 Leider and Gurre-Leider. He has a chamber symphony, which is great, but it hasn't resonated with me quite as well. If you haven't delved into atonal music before, then it definitely does take some adjustment.

Also, if you're looking for some interesting writings on music, Schoenberg was a prolific writer. Most of his writings are fairly heavy with music theory, but he does have a few essays that are approachable and rewarding reads.