Classics Reborn
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Slammed
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Ok so I did done gone an did it, I read KK's book.
I honestly tried to read it with an open mind and that was difficult given all the stuff I had read over the last few months, but I still tried.
Firstly I will say that will I don't think KK has at any time recently been misquoted I do think that he has at times been selectively quoted and that's made some things sound worse than they are written, but pretty much everything I've read seems to be close to what he's said.
He plays the victim from the onset setting up his early life as an excuse for things he did in later life, whether that is intentional I don't really know but it happens. I'm not making light of him having a shit childhood but some people grow beyond it, I don't think he has because too easily falls into the blame game using it for future problems.
He comes across as the sort of guy who in a room full of people will call you a cunt, spend 10 minutes explaining why you are one and then finish the speech with "but don't get me wrong he really is a great person".
It is only a one sided story so obviously other band members don't get a say but he really lays the boots into Glenn and at times Rob, followed by talking about how great they are. He doesn't quite say he invented the leather look but he may as well because I think he firmly believes it.
He seems to make a hard and fast point that Rob's sexuality has nothing to do with the times he lays the boots in because he understands gay people having had gay friends since he was a teenager, but he mentions it so god damn often I'm not sure if he's trying to convince the reader he's okay with gay people or he's trying to convince himself.
His hindsight vision is 20/20 or so he thinks and the things he blames Glenn and Rob for, but mainly Glenn, dating back to the mid 80's is amazing. He claims he wrote his first resignation in 91, but didn't hand it in, because of Glenn, Rob and Management and mentions multiple times that he wishes he'd done it.
He also claims that the choice not to focus on the "Ripper" era and never talk about the albums was a mutual decision that he agreed with and still agrees with despite being friends with Tom.
Honestly there is so much playing the victim whilst at the same time claiming he was responsible for everything that it is at times difficult to read. However the last chapter (or two) where he talks about the resignation (which he admits was rude enough to never see him invited back) feels like it was written at a different time to the rest of the book. It feels a lot more angry, pissed off, and like he's trying to get retribution for everything. (Interestingly he claims Retribution was a stupid name for a metal album because it says the wrong thing, but he got overruled). It was an extremely childish way to end the book I felt.
There is a lot more to it that just what I have written but when the guy who we've all see in the press recently ends his first chapter like this:
For me the path of least resistance was the most attractive—and if that meant sabotaging or disadvantaging myself, then so be it.
you could be excused for thinking it's two different people.
But on the whole KK sounds like a really decent guy and I respect him totally for what he's done all these years.
I honestly tried to read it with an open mind and that was difficult given all the stuff I had read over the last few months, but I still tried.
Firstly I will say that will I don't think KK has at any time recently been misquoted I do think that he has at times been selectively quoted and that's made some things sound worse than they are written, but pretty much everything I've read seems to be close to what he's said.
He plays the victim from the onset setting up his early life as an excuse for things he did in later life, whether that is intentional I don't really know but it happens. I'm not making light of him having a shit childhood but some people grow beyond it, I don't think he has because too easily falls into the blame game using it for future problems.
He comes across as the sort of guy who in a room full of people will call you a cunt, spend 10 minutes explaining why you are one and then finish the speech with "but don't get me wrong he really is a great person".
It is only a one sided story so obviously other band members don't get a say but he really lays the boots into Glenn and at times Rob, followed by talking about how great they are. He doesn't quite say he invented the leather look but he may as well because I think he firmly believes it.
He seems to make a hard and fast point that Rob's sexuality has nothing to do with the times he lays the boots in because he understands gay people having had gay friends since he was a teenager, but he mentions it so god damn often I'm not sure if he's trying to convince the reader he's okay with gay people or he's trying to convince himself.
His hindsight vision is 20/20 or so he thinks and the things he blames Glenn and Rob for, but mainly Glenn, dating back to the mid 80's is amazing. He claims he wrote his first resignation in 91, but didn't hand it in, because of Glenn, Rob and Management and mentions multiple times that he wishes he'd done it.
He also claims that the choice not to focus on the "Ripper" era and never talk about the albums was a mutual decision that he agreed with and still agrees with despite being friends with Tom.
Honestly there is so much playing the victim whilst at the same time claiming he was responsible for everything that it is at times difficult to read. However the last chapter (or two) where he talks about the resignation (which he admits was rude enough to never see him invited back) feels like it was written at a different time to the rest of the book. It feels a lot more angry, pissed off, and like he's trying to get retribution for everything. (Interestingly he claims Retribution was a stupid name for a metal album because it says the wrong thing, but he got overruled). It was an extremely childish way to end the book I felt.
There is a lot more to it that just what I have written but when the guy who we've all see in the press recently ends his first chapter like this:
Whether I was born with this trait of grinning and bearing it or not, that’s exactly how I’d navigate difficult situations thereafter. As hard as I tried, I was never a nasty person, or someone who relished confrontation and head games.
Then follows it up with:
For me the path of least resistance was the most attractive—and if that meant sabotaging or disadvantaging myself, then so be it.
you could be excused for thinking it's two different people.
But on the whole KK sounds like a really decent guy and I respect him totally for what he's done all these years.
Slammed
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The weird thing is that it is an interesting read, but there is no doubt that the guy is very bitter and thinks every decision that isn't his has been made to piss him off. He didn't like the name Retribution for Rob's come back album so he got overruled. He didn't want to do a tour but everyone else did so they conspired against him and made the tour happen. He did want to do a tour but Glenn convinced the manager to cancel it. Glenn hated his solos and eventually talked the band out of accepting them. Glenn only cared about solos and KK had to work harder at keeping the songs tight on stage. Very little has been his fault it's everyone else and between about 91 and 2008 it's all Glenn's fault.
It's funny to hear him say that in the late 80's touring the East Coast with Metallica and Slayer was the wrong thing and that bands like Dokken and Scorpions would have been better suited. Then in 2008 just before RJD's death they played on the same bill as RJD and Slayer and it was a perfect fit.
It's funny to hear him say that in the late 80's touring the East Coast with Metallica and Slayer was the wrong thing and that bands like Dokken and Scorpions would have been better suited. Then in 2008 just before RJD's death they played on the same bill as RJD and Slayer and it was a perfect fit.
Haha, well pre Painkiller I would agree they should have been touring with the hard rock bands. They just didn't have the material for the heavy stuff. They had heavy stuff compared to Bon Jovi but not the actual heavy bands.
He sounds like someone who would be very hard to be in a band with and someone who would always smile at you and then talk shit behind your back.
He sounds like someone who would be very hard to be in a band with and someone who would always smile at you and then talk shit behind your back.
Slammed
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I think pre Painkiller it was just less likely for bands like Slayer and JP to share a bill, whereas these days it's not really that uncommon to have such a mix. To be honest I'm surprised he didn't say touring with Slayer and Metallica was his idea and it paved the way for the gigs we have these days. But he also claimed bands like Motorhead were too heavy for them as well and it's not like Motorhead were more than heavy rock and roll.
Oh he really comes off as the talk shit behind your back sort of person and he either doesn't realise it he's doing it or he doesn't care, at times I actually think he doesn't realise it. I think JP remaining silent the last few months has annoyed the hell out of him but I think they have done the right thing by not saying anything. He makes it well known that he is still on the board of JP yet he claims to have known nothing about the management side for 20 years. It doesn't really make sense. But then having a board member sling the shit he has and not get fired doesn't make sense to me either.
Oh he really comes off as the talk shit behind your back sort of person and he either doesn't realise it he's doing it or he doesn't care, at times I actually think he doesn't realise it. I think JP remaining silent the last few months has annoyed the hell out of him but I think they have done the right thing by not saying anything. He makes it well known that he is still on the board of JP yet he claims to have known nothing about the management side for 20 years. It doesn't really make sense. But then having a board member sling the shit he has and not get fired doesn't make sense to me either.
Yeah you're right it'd be different today. I'm surprised he didn't say it was his idea either lol. I think he's right about Motorhead and you're right too. I think what really sets them apart was Motorhead was grittier where as Priest was more commercial.
LOl, a lot of his behavior and general outlook seems erratic. And just plain unhappy with a barrel of sour grapes. I wouldn't ask him back in a million years. He's poison. He'd just quit again. The board thing must be in title only. Ian's last article on Blabber was the right way to go....but a part of me would love to hear them say fuck that guy lol.
LOl, a lot of his behavior and general outlook seems erratic. And just plain unhappy with a barrel of sour grapes. I wouldn't ask him back in a million years. He's poison. He'd just quit again. The board thing must be in title only. Ian's last article on Blabber was the right way to go....but a part of me would love to hear them say fuck that guy lol.
Slammed
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I think the draw card for a gig with Metallica, Slayer and JP in the late 80's would have been that many of the newer thrash fans would have been fans of JP before thrash really broke and for them seeing a band they grew up with and some newer bands would have been important even if theyw eren't exactly the same genre. Many would have said Ozzy taking Metallica on the road for Master Of Puppets was as much a mismatch as JP, Slayer and Metallica but that tour skyrocketed Metallica.
He fully admits that he never wanted to return and that his retirement was for good not just a rest like Rob's "failed" attempt at a solo career but then jump a chapter and he's asking why he wasn't just automatically reinstated. He admits he's in no shape to tour at his age and that he has very little desire to record, but he should have been reinstated, it's just weird.
Something else that was funny was that in the very early days they were treated (in his eyes) poorly by a headlining band, I can't remember which band it was but the treatment was so bad that he deemed his JP would never treat a support act that way. Skip to the early 80's and he slams the crap out of Maiden and Dianno. They were pretentious, wanted their own way, drunk and had big egos. Then when Bruce took over out of the goodness of his own heart they gave them another shot thinking they'd grown up and Dianno wasn't there but Bruce and Maiden was just as rude and the band would not do what Priest asked them to do. But it's okay because he meet up with Dianno a few years ago and they shared a few drinks and he's now a good bloke, not sure about Bruce though
He fully admits that he never wanted to return and that his retirement was for good not just a rest like Rob's "failed" attempt at a solo career but then jump a chapter and he's asking why he wasn't just automatically reinstated. He admits he's in no shape to tour at his age and that he has very little desire to record, but he should have been reinstated, it's just weird.
Something else that was funny was that in the very early days they were treated (in his eyes) poorly by a headlining band, I can't remember which band it was but the treatment was so bad that he deemed his JP would never treat a support act that way. Skip to the early 80's and he slams the crap out of Maiden and Dianno. They were pretentious, wanted their own way, drunk and had big egos. Then when Bruce took over out of the goodness of his own heart they gave them another shot thinking they'd grown up and Dianno wasn't there but Bruce and Maiden was just as rude and the band would not do what Priest asked them to do. But it's okay because he meet up with Dianno a few years ago and they shared a few drinks and he's now a good bloke, not sure about Bruce though
I can't speak for anyone else but for me, personally I couldn't stand JP before Painkiller. I would have looked at them on a bill like that as a total waste. To me they were just classic rock that the old timers liked lol. They were 70's heavy and pretty much commercial fluff by the 80's,( the guy made himself the flag girl instead of the race car driver in his own video lol) where as Ozzy sounded much more modern. But then Painkiller, hell that put some thrash bands to shame. That really impressed me. To me Ozzy and Metallica would have been a good ticket. But I'm only speaking for myself.
That's weird about not being in shape to tour, because I've read him saying he would go out there and be the one to energize the band and put on a proper show because he is still in shape lol.
I think KK is one of those guys you just can't win with.
That's weird about not being in shape to tour, because I've read him saying he would go out there and be the one to energize the band and put on a proper show because he is still in shape lol.
I think KK is one of those guys you just can't win with.
Slammed
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Given when they started and who they were influenced by it's not surprising they were more NWOBHM rather than anything close to thrash, they'd been touring for more than a decade before thrash really broke. But asking most guitarists of those breaking thrash bands who their influences were JP were always up there. To me seeing them on a bill with Metallica any time after Killing Machine (Hell Bent For Leather in the US) wouldn't have been a deal breaker.
His comments about being in shape are part of the reason I think the book was written over a long period with a break. Now he says he could do live shows but at the end of the book he doesn't seem to have any intention of it. It's either written with gaps or he's split personality.
I know he'd see it differently but living with him must be difficult when you consider he left home to live by himself at 15, went back home at 18 for about 6 months, then moved out for good. He's never had a long term relationship where he's lived with someone (he's had long term g/f's but spent 6 months every year on tour so never really lived with them), throughout all his relationships he's cheated on his g/f's and he seems to talk about women and girls as objects to fuck on the road while keeping one comfy at home.
Turbo was definitely a strange period but consider just how bad it could have been. Between Turbo and Ram It Down they recorded three tracks for Stock Aitken and Waterman with the intention of a full album, the tracks were not released (although KK loved one of them). If you don't know who they are do a search for "Stock Aitken and Waterman hits".
His comments about being in shape are part of the reason I think the book was written over a long period with a break. Now he says he could do live shows but at the end of the book he doesn't seem to have any intention of it. It's either written with gaps or he's split personality.
I know he'd see it differently but living with him must be difficult when you consider he left home to live by himself at 15, went back home at 18 for about 6 months, then moved out for good. He's never had a long term relationship where he's lived with someone (he's had long term g/f's but spent 6 months every year on tour so never really lived with them), throughout all his relationships he's cheated on his g/f's and he seems to talk about women and girls as objects to fuck on the road while keeping one comfy at home.
Turbo was definitely a strange period but consider just how bad it could have been. Between Turbo and Ram It Down they recorded three tracks for Stock Aitken and Waterman with the intention of a full album, the tracks were not released (although KK loved one of them). If you don't know who they are do a search for "Stock Aitken and Waterman hits".
Is that the disco demos you're talking about? Because that is awful shit! If that had worked out for them they'd be a completely different band today. Thank god it didn't!
As much as I dislike a bunch of their music and especially that look. They have enough that is cool and some that is outstanding enough to me that I am happy they are still going. I'm glad they influenced who they did and then were cool (or smart) enough to let those bands influence them.
Painkiller still crushes and although I don't own the new one yet, what I've heard is awesome.
And I'm sure they have a bunch of stuff I've never heard that is good as well.( Most of my reaction to them is based on being a kid in the 80's, so if it was on the radio it would have been late 70's and 80's stuff)
They are out there waving the flag for metal as much as anyone. I hope they make a few more albums
The drama with KK is lame
As much as I dislike a bunch of their music and especially that look. They have enough that is cool and some that is outstanding enough to me that I am happy they are still going. I'm glad they influenced who they did and then were cool (or smart) enough to let those bands influence them.
Painkiller still crushes and although I don't own the new one yet, what I've heard is awesome.
And I'm sure they have a bunch of stuff I've never heard that is good as well.( Most of my reaction to them is based on being a kid in the 80's, so if it was on the radio it would have been late 70's and 80's stuff)
They are out there waving the flag for metal as much as anyone. I hope they make a few more albums
The drama with KK is lame
Slammed
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They were more pop than disco, Stock Aitken and Waterman were known for fabricated pop and dance music. KK doesn't specifically say why they didn't eventually release the songs (officially) or go further with SAW but those three songs did become other real JP songs later.
There is good in most of their albums but not every song is a hit. Other than Painkiller and maybe Firepower I don't think there is a full album of brilliant music. Most seem to have three or four really stand out tracks and the rest is filler. I know die hard fans wouldn't think like that and many see perfection in even their slowest and softest songs but for me it's the stand out songs that make me want to own the albums.
Interesting you say about radio hits. KK reckons that the US radio market was extremely hard to break and they really didn't break it until Turbo Lover. They toured well with the East Coast being the best for them but only one or two radio shows really picked them up. Interesting enough he also says that their largest selling album only shipped 2.5M copies to this day. That's a low figure considering they are as high profile as they are.
According to Rob Glenn is already writing the next album, but it's probably all solos
There is good in most of their albums but not every song is a hit. Other than Painkiller and maybe Firepower I don't think there is a full album of brilliant music. Most seem to have three or four really stand out tracks and the rest is filler. I know die hard fans wouldn't think like that and many see perfection in even their slowest and softest songs but for me it's the stand out songs that make me want to own the albums.
Interesting you say about radio hits. KK reckons that the US radio market was extremely hard to break and they really didn't break it until Turbo Lover. They toured well with the East Coast being the best for them but only one or two radio shows really picked them up. Interesting enough he also says that their largest selling album only shipped 2.5M copies to this day. That's a low figure considering they are as high profile as they are.
According to Rob Glenn is already writing the next album, but it's probably all solos
I think they were in heavy rotation on classic rock radio and had some play on straight up hard rock stations. For sure Mtv played the hell out of Breaking The Law, Turbo Lover , Livin After Midnight and You've Got Another thing Comin. I mean all the time lol. If it weren't for those I don't think many people here would know of them at all. They got legions of mid western fans. You know the places that had almost nothing there in the 80's.Plus the more accessible places. So if that's not breaking through I don't know what is.
2.5 seems really low. That's crazy. you're right that's very low for how high profile they are. I wonder if he's correct.
Yeah I saw Glenn was writing riffs. Think they'll beat Megadeth?!
2.5 seems really low. That's crazy. you're right that's very low for how high profile they are. I wonder if he's correct.
Yeah I saw Glenn was writing riffs. Think they'll beat Megadeth?!
Slammed
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Yeah I think even our MTV was playing those songs fairly heavily one night a week but I know radio wasn't it was up to the small independent radio stations with the output of a megaphone to play even those songs. By the late 80's and into the 90's there was a few more metal shows on the radio but it wasn't until about '94 that commercial FM stations started to play those songs. Now days nearly all the commercial stations play those bigger and radio friendly songs but they wouldn't touch Painkiller or Firepower.
They moved to somewhere in Texas at one stage, might have been Austin, because they did have a big following there but apparently it wasn't replicated in many other places. Going by Wiki he's correct, Turbo sold 2.5M the next closest is Painkiller selling 2M.
Glenn should beat MegaDave, since he's not permanently on tour (and only writes solos) so he's got more time than Dave
They moved to somewhere in Texas at one stage, might have been Austin, because they did have a big following there but apparently it wasn't replicated in many other places. Going by Wiki he's correct, Turbo sold 2.5M the next closest is Painkiller selling 2M.
Glenn should beat MegaDave, since he's not permanently on tour (and only writes solos) so he's got more time than Dave
Slammed
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That's an insult to wiki
Funnily enough KK doesn't claim to have moved there because he always kept the huge mansion/castle thing he bought in the 80's. When he mentioned that Rob moved to LA (from memory) after his drug and relationship problems he almost made it sound derogatory.
According to KK he only writes and plays solos now. Everything is about the solos to Glenn and even before KK left Glenn was slowly whittling KK's solos from the show and making his go longer. But not only that he has to play the last note of every song. KK even admits to being petty towards the end and deliberately playing one note more than Glenn on stage just to piss him off, but then Glenn realised what he was doing so Glenn added his own last note. In the end KK gave up because it was petty and he's the type of guy to just give in and not confront a person.
Funnily enough KK doesn't claim to have moved there because he always kept the huge mansion/castle thing he bought in the 80's. When he mentioned that Rob moved to LA (from memory) after his drug and relationship problems he almost made it sound derogatory.
According to KK he only writes and plays solos now. Everything is about the solos to Glenn and even before KK left Glenn was slowly whittling KK's solos from the show and making his go longer. But not only that he has to play the last note of every song. KK even admits to being petty towards the end and deliberately playing one note more than Glenn on stage just to piss him off, but then Glenn realised what he was doing so Glenn added his own last note. In the end KK gave up because it was petty and he's the type of guy to just give in and not confront a person.
Slammed
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Given the majority of the songs are credited to Rob, KK and Glenn it's hard to know exactly who writes what (other than Rob writes most of the lyrics). But the thing is even KK doesn't seem to answer the question either. He seems to suggest it was an equal partnership for years, then when he gets bitchy he suggests Glenn had been pushing him out since the 90's, then he suggests that it wasn't until the 00's after Rob came back that Glenn started wielding his power to gain everything.
The problem as I see it is that it's a blanket statement, he doesn't say it started at any given point. He doesn't use two songs, or albums pointing at one of them to show the major difference Glenn made. He doesn't even give one solid example of what Glenn did. He made one reference to solos in the 80's being about even in time across the whole album but by the 90's Glenn easily had something stupid like 5 minutes more solos than him but the rest is just blanket statements that make it hard to prove or disprove.
The problem as I see it is that it's a blanket statement, he doesn't say it started at any given point. He doesn't use two songs, or albums pointing at one of them to show the major difference Glenn made. He doesn't even give one solid example of what Glenn did. He made one reference to solos in the 80's being about even in time across the whole album but by the 90's Glenn easily had something stupid like 5 minutes more solos than him but the rest is just blanket statements that make it hard to prove or disprove.
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