Slammed
Active Member
- Jun 15, 2017
- 31,408
- 45,099
- 113
I'm speaking for me and speaking about a country in which I lived and a music scene I was involved with which included international music from many sources.
Classics Reborn
- Thread starter redfly
- Start date
I'm speaking for me and speaking about a country in which I lived and a music scene I was involved with which included international music from many sources.
Slammed
Active Member
- Jun 15, 2017
- 31,408
- 45,099
- 113
Better than my first production, I made the drummer sound like he was using ice cream containers
But you're right production from the States was generally more polished in the late 80's and early 90's than what was coming out of Europe, whether that was deliberate or not I don't know for sure.
Neptune
Active Member
- Jun 12, 2012
- 7,744
- 11,298
- 113
I was always shocked a little bit on just how much money it takes to turn out good sounding record!
Slammed
Active Member
- Jun 15, 2017
- 31,408
- 45,099
- 113
In this country it's always been a double edged sword. You get a studio that has had a lot of success and they demand a higher hourly rate, or you get a producer with credibility (how ever that is determined) and they charge a higher hourly rate. If you get both it costs a fortune. But neither are a guaranteed to yield results. We've had plenty of good sounding albums come from cheaper studios with a good producer but we've had very few really good sounding albums from good studios with half arsed producers.
Lol, no, first said you listened to Kreator more, so that makes them better somehow in fact and not opinion. Then you said the world. Which is just ridiculous to say.
You could know a thousand overseas people personally, still doesn't make it true. It's the opinion of some, I am of a different opinion and being American and them being American has nothing to do with it. The Big four is celebrated all over the metal world. As evidence with the concerts. It's not anywhere near just an American thing. In fact I'd bet all those bands sell better overseas than in America for the most part. And most likely out sell Kreator in Germany. I have no idea if it's true. But I'm gonna say it as if fact.
I could reference overseas people as well, I've been around. But that doesn't really mean anything. You like Kreator better that's absolutely fine. I like Kreator and they are on par with the big 4. They have some incredible stuff, but to say fuck the big4 and say Kreator basically crushes those bands is absolutely opinion based and not fact. I could easily say Dyers Eve beats anything Kreator has ever done. But that would just be an opinion not a worldwide fact.
Besides Testament is better than all of them.
Slammed
Active Member
- Jun 15, 2017
- 31,408
- 45,099
- 113
Oh dear I apologise. I will rephrase and write in long form in the hope of inflicting less offence.
The big 4 did not have the same impact, or do it for as long, in many parts of the world as they did in America, no one said anything about them not being celebrated for being the big 4 that opened the thrash scene up, just that they didn't mean as much to us and many of the metalheads we liaised with at the time who were mostly European. Of course they were recognised but it didn't mean they were idolised. Kreator, Sodom and other bands rode into popularity in their own country before anywhere else. Then they rode into popularity in this country on the back of the Big 4 but we'd been hearing the Big 4 for a few years and their albums were on regular rotation so something new and harder was always going to pull interest.
In the mid to late 80's record companies from the UK and Europe almost spammed (before spamming was popular) our street press and radio stations with demos, promos and freebies giving their bands almost exclusive air time. Bands like Metallica and Megadeth etc got heaps of air play before this happened but when the choices because bigger and the selected song pool increased massively from one side of the globe it's hardly surprising bands like Kreator started gaining more popularity at the time. People stopped requesting Metallica, Megadeth and Anthrax and started requesting bands like Kreator and Sodom. Garage bands started adding European bands into their set list and punters at clubs booed when what they started to consider mainstream got played.
By the end of the 80's the only one of the Big4 that had done a tour here was Metallica and that was off what many thrash fans considered a lacklustre album. Megadeth had tried to get here but didn't, Slayer and Anthrax seemingly didn't even try. Whereas we'd been seeing European bands like Sabbath and Priest since the 70's, Euro bands knew they could come here and make a tour work, US thrash bands didn't. The LA glam scene sent more bands here in the 80's and early 90's than the US thrash scene did.
So yeah when I say fuck the Big 4 because Kreator slayed them, they did. We rode closely on the coat tails of Europe. We embraced Euro bands we sent many bands to European tours because our bands suited their gigs. That doesn't in any way suggest I'm taking any glory from the Big 4, or trying to prove one band is more successful than another, simply that at the time Kreator released Extreme Aggression that album made them bigger, and more popular in this country and many of the countries we were involved with. By the mid 90's the Big 4 term was almost dropped from our conversations and by about the same time Kreator had turned to shit.
Exodus is better than Testament
The big 4 did not have the same impact, or do it for as long, in many parts of the world as they did in America, no one said anything about them not being celebrated for being the big 4 that opened the thrash scene up, just that they didn't mean as much to us and many of the metalheads we liaised with at the time who were mostly European. Of course they were recognised but it didn't mean they were idolised. Kreator, Sodom and other bands rode into popularity in their own country before anywhere else. Then they rode into popularity in this country on the back of the Big 4 but we'd been hearing the Big 4 for a few years and their albums were on regular rotation so something new and harder was always going to pull interest.
In the mid to late 80's record companies from the UK and Europe almost spammed (before spamming was popular) our street press and radio stations with demos, promos and freebies giving their bands almost exclusive air time. Bands like Metallica and Megadeth etc got heaps of air play before this happened but when the choices because bigger and the selected song pool increased massively from one side of the globe it's hardly surprising bands like Kreator started gaining more popularity at the time. People stopped requesting Metallica, Megadeth and Anthrax and started requesting bands like Kreator and Sodom. Garage bands started adding European bands into their set list and punters at clubs booed when what they started to consider mainstream got played.
By the end of the 80's the only one of the Big4 that had done a tour here was Metallica and that was off what many thrash fans considered a lacklustre album. Megadeth had tried to get here but didn't, Slayer and Anthrax seemingly didn't even try. Whereas we'd been seeing European bands like Sabbath and Priest since the 70's, Euro bands knew they could come here and make a tour work, US thrash bands didn't. The LA glam scene sent more bands here in the 80's and early 90's than the US thrash scene did.
So yeah when I say fuck the Big 4 because Kreator slayed them, they did. We rode closely on the coat tails of Europe. We embraced Euro bands we sent many bands to European tours because our bands suited their gigs. That doesn't in any way suggest I'm taking any glory from the Big 4, or trying to prove one band is more successful than another, simply that at the time Kreator released Extreme Aggression that album made them bigger, and more popular in this country and many of the countries we were involved with. By the mid 90's the Big 4 term was almost dropped from our conversations and by about the same time Kreator had turned to shit.
Exodus is better than Testament
Oh don't worry about offence... it's not like you said anyone that doesn't like Manowar is a fucking loser or anything
You're still saying the world. You're opinion. If you weren't trying to say it's fact you wouldn't drag anyone else into it.
I feel like you think the big4 was bigger here than it actually was. It really took the world to make them that. The metal was flourishing here but still not huge. I have never seen a battle jacket from Europe without someone from the big 4's patch on it. Usually all of them.
It took everyone to do it.
What's new usually is favored precisely for that reason. It's new and you're used to the other stuff.
There's always the people that hate on bands just because they got popular. That doesn't make them mainstream, those bands in the 80's (Slayer NEVER did) didn't seek out mainstream, they got airplay because they were awesome. They didn't even get airplay until the very tail end of the 80's. The big 4 bands were (again outside of Slayer) were more palatable but that's because Mille's voice is obnoxious and is an acquired taste much like Blit'z. And probably why the other three bands (and others) never got anywhere near as popular as Metallica. Even before they turned into watered down shit. Hetfields voice was badass.
I'll put the first few albums from any of those bands against any from Kreator..except maybe Anthrax who was inconsistent in heaviness.
But some people like the more obnoxious sound. To me Kreator doesn't have the power or the riffs that Metallica had. Megadeth had genius riffs like nobody else. Slayer is just brutal and Anthrax is fun but also have great riffs. There is something unique about each of the big4 bands. That's what made them what they were. Kreator was just aggressive. Not much style to me.
And that absolutely appeals to a certain set of people. It didn't to me for many years but as the years go by I appreciate it more and more.
We had the same group of people saying bands like Kreator and Exodus and the more obscure bands are better and it's basically a fact because they hung around with like minded people, but that's just personal preference. Or because they hate anything popular, and still "popular" was a relative term.
The 90's are a whole different thing, Metallica and Megadeth and Anthrax changed completely. The term Big4 dropped off here as well. But that has nothing to do with past albums. And that change in those three bands bands helped Pantera become huge. Because they were a new band. Stylistically anyway. Not many people had heard of or liked them before. But they came on the scene strong and filled the gap left by Metallica Anthrax and Megadeth.Tons of people said fuck the big4 Pantera is the shit. Because they were more aggressive.
But the first four Metallica and Megadeth albums are good all the way through. I can't say the same about Kreator. I can only say they are aggressive.
So I completely understand what you're saying about Kreator. But slays the big4? No.
Priest and Sabbath and those bands had label support and lots of money. That's how they were able to tour in Australia.
And so did Metallica. Same with the glam bands, they had major label support. The others not so much, they were mostly on indie labels. Plus dude Australia is fucking far! lol
But let's not pretend you don't have some weird chip on your shoulder about it. You have mentioned the Big4 in a negative way several times and emphasized that they're American and that Australia didn't get the shows while the bands that did go to Australia are favorited by you.
And since I'm sick as a dog I really don't know if I put any of this into coherence.It's hard to gather my thoughts right now. So take it all with a grain of salt lol
Which Exodus would that be? Paul, Dukes? or the guy that sounds like AC/Dc on overdrive.
You're still saying the world. You're opinion. If you weren't trying to say it's fact you wouldn't drag anyone else into it.
I feel like you think the big4 was bigger here than it actually was. It really took the world to make them that. The metal was flourishing here but still not huge. I have never seen a battle jacket from Europe without someone from the big 4's patch on it. Usually all of them.
It took everyone to do it.
What's new usually is favored precisely for that reason. It's new and you're used to the other stuff.
There's always the people that hate on bands just because they got popular. That doesn't make them mainstream, those bands in the 80's (Slayer NEVER did) didn't seek out mainstream, they got airplay because they were awesome. They didn't even get airplay until the very tail end of the 80's. The big 4 bands were (again outside of Slayer) were more palatable but that's because Mille's voice is obnoxious and is an acquired taste much like Blit'z. And probably why the other three bands (and others) never got anywhere near as popular as Metallica. Even before they turned into watered down shit. Hetfields voice was badass.
I'll put the first few albums from any of those bands against any from Kreator..except maybe Anthrax who was inconsistent in heaviness.
But some people like the more obnoxious sound. To me Kreator doesn't have the power or the riffs that Metallica had. Megadeth had genius riffs like nobody else. Slayer is just brutal and Anthrax is fun but also have great riffs. There is something unique about each of the big4 bands. That's what made them what they were. Kreator was just aggressive. Not much style to me.
And that absolutely appeals to a certain set of people. It didn't to me for many years but as the years go by I appreciate it more and more.
We had the same group of people saying bands like Kreator and Exodus and the more obscure bands are better and it's basically a fact because they hung around with like minded people, but that's just personal preference. Or because they hate anything popular, and still "popular" was a relative term.
The 90's are a whole different thing, Metallica and Megadeth and Anthrax changed completely. The term Big4 dropped off here as well. But that has nothing to do with past albums. And that change in those three bands bands helped Pantera become huge. Because they were a new band. Stylistically anyway. Not many people had heard of or liked them before. But they came on the scene strong and filled the gap left by Metallica Anthrax and Megadeth.Tons of people said fuck the big4 Pantera is the shit. Because they were more aggressive.
But the first four Metallica and Megadeth albums are good all the way through. I can't say the same about Kreator. I can only say they are aggressive.
So I completely understand what you're saying about Kreator. But slays the big4? No.
Priest and Sabbath and those bands had label support and lots of money. That's how they were able to tour in Australia.
And so did Metallica. Same with the glam bands, they had major label support. The others not so much, they were mostly on indie labels. Plus dude Australia is fucking far! lol
But let's not pretend you don't have some weird chip on your shoulder about it. You have mentioned the Big4 in a negative way several times and emphasized that they're American and that Australia didn't get the shows while the bands that did go to Australia are favorited by you.
And since I'm sick as a dog I really don't know if I put any of this into coherence.It's hard to gather my thoughts right now. So take it all with a grain of salt lol
Which Exodus would that be? Paul, Dukes? or the guy that sounds like AC/Dc on overdrive.
Slammed
Active Member
- Jun 15, 2017
- 31,408
- 45,099
- 113
And you tell me I put up a wall of text.
People who don't like Manowar are in denial!
I'm not suggesting the whole world did anything. I'm suggesting the world I was involved with which included groups from mostly Euro countries had a different opinion to America. It didn't take the world to make the big 4, the big 4 was made in America and offered to the world as the Big 4 until the term was coined we just had bands we liked or didn't like, just like NWOBHM was, or like the Big 4 of German thrash. How people embraced it was up to them. Many embraced it in droves, but many also got over it quickly and by the late 80's even our magazines were limiting the use of the term big 4.
Oh I knew the word mainstream would get picked up. Mainstream metal in this country was Metallica, Maiden and anyone who was popular in the metal world. Those bands became mainstream for us, I don't care what others deem as mainstream.
Speaking of the Big 4 in a negative light is not something to get offended at. It's like a German being offended when they get told Metallica and Megadeth should mean more to them than Kreator and Sodom. It's like a Pom getting annoyed when they get told Anthrax is better than Maiden. Or even an Aussie getting shirty because someone thinks Megadeth were better than Mortal Sin. At the end of the day the big 4 is a term made up by, probably by a journo, to fit people into a group and make people feel they belonged to something. We didn't have the big 4 tour, but we also didn't have the NWOBHM tour, we just had tours.
As for the tour distance. yes it's a long way but only bands as big as Metallica, and Megadeth did tours here with major label support. Most of the smaller bands from Germany and even bands like Morbid Angel toured here because our promoters pushed the gigs, and offered guaranteed money to the band management. Bigger bands were greedy and wanted too much, smaller bands thrived because they didn't have the big band mentality. But that's got nothing to do with how popular the Big 4 were.
Dukes was a wanker. Mortification from Melbourne would wipe any band Dukes was in off the stage without turning their amps on.
People who don't like Manowar are in denial!
I'm not suggesting the whole world did anything. I'm suggesting the world I was involved with which included groups from mostly Euro countries had a different opinion to America. It didn't take the world to make the big 4, the big 4 was made in America and offered to the world as the Big 4 until the term was coined we just had bands we liked or didn't like, just like NWOBHM was, or like the Big 4 of German thrash. How people embraced it was up to them. Many embraced it in droves, but many also got over it quickly and by the late 80's even our magazines were limiting the use of the term big 4.
Oh I knew the word mainstream would get picked up. Mainstream metal in this country was Metallica, Maiden and anyone who was popular in the metal world. Those bands became mainstream for us, I don't care what others deem as mainstream.
Speaking of the Big 4 in a negative light is not something to get offended at. It's like a German being offended when they get told Metallica and Megadeth should mean more to them than Kreator and Sodom. It's like a Pom getting annoyed when they get told Anthrax is better than Maiden. Or even an Aussie getting shirty because someone thinks Megadeth were better than Mortal Sin. At the end of the day the big 4 is a term made up by, probably by a journo, to fit people into a group and make people feel they belonged to something. We didn't have the big 4 tour, but we also didn't have the NWOBHM tour, we just had tours.
As for the tour distance. yes it's a long way but only bands as big as Metallica, and Megadeth did tours here with major label support. Most of the smaller bands from Germany and even bands like Morbid Angel toured here because our promoters pushed the gigs, and offered guaranteed money to the band management. Bigger bands were greedy and wanted too much, smaller bands thrived because they didn't have the big band mentality. But that's got nothing to do with how popular the Big 4 were.
Dukes was a wanker. Mortification from Melbourne would wipe any band Dukes was in off the stage without turning their amps on.
Well I don't care what others think about mainstream either so there . Knowing groups that think the way you do doesn't make it fact. You don't get offended because you're the one who said it and don't care. But you sure as hell get offended about stuff you do care about when it's spoken of negatively. If I said all your bands were pure shit I bet you'd have something to say about it. Look how you go off on a rant when I make a joke about Kreater being better in 89 because it's in between Justice and Rip. By the way I thought that was pretty funny Or instantly called people who don't like Manowar fucking losers because someone made a pretty innocent joke about the singers voice.
And yes the big4 started here as bands but it took a lot of Europe to make them actually big. All those bands had bigger shows there than here.
I know plenty of overseas people that take those albums as gospel.
I have no idea why not as many bands toured in Australia, I can only speculate that the pay off wasn't good enough. But I really don't have any idea.
You didn't just say a band is better than the big 4 you basically said the big4 suck. If you don't want you're posts to be taken so negatively stop writing in such a negative way.
Again, saying Mortification would wipe any band Dukes was in off the stage without turning on their amps is absurd and purely opinion. But you state it as fact and in a pretty dickish way that almost demands a dickish responce. But that wouldn't have anything to do with the fact they are from Australia would it? I like Exodus with Dukes way more than with Zetro. But I'm not gonna go say Exodus sucks without Dukes It's just my personal taste.
Manowar!
. Knowing groups that think the way you do doesn't make it fact. You don't get offended because you're the one who said it and don't care. But you sure as hell get offended about stuff you do care about when it's spoken of negatively. If I said all your bands were pure shit I bet you'd have something to say about it. Look how you go off on a rant when I make a joke about Kreater being better in 89 because it's in between Justice and Rip. By the way I thought that was pretty funny Or instantly called people who don't like Manowar fucking losers because someone made a pretty innocent joke about the singers voice.And yes the big4 started here as bands but it took a lot of Europe to make them actually big. All those bands had bigger shows there than here.
I know plenty of overseas people that take those albums as gospel.
I have no idea why not as many bands toured in Australia, I can only speculate that the pay off wasn't good enough. But I really don't have any idea.
You didn't just say a band is better than the big 4 you basically said the big4 suck. If you don't want you're posts to be taken so negatively stop writing in such a negative way.
Again, saying Mortification would wipe any band Dukes was in off the stage without turning on their amps is absurd and purely opinion. But you state it as fact and in a pretty dickish way that almost demands a dickish responce. But that wouldn't have anything to do with the fact they are from Australia would it?
I like Exodus with Dukes way more than with Zetro. But I'm not gonna go say Exodus sucks without Dukes It's just my personal taste.Manowar!
Slammed
Active Member
- Jun 15, 2017
- 31,408
- 45,099
- 113
Why get offended when someone tells you they don't agree with something you like though. Defending ones own thoughts is a long way from being offended. Defending ones thoughts is the basis of forums and communication in general. Getting offended because someone says something you disagree with is akin to disliking someone because of where they come from. It's pointless. I might well defend something I like but I wont get offended because someone thinks they are shit. I grew up with people telling me my taste in everything was wrong and most of them did it purely to get a reaction.
The rant (as you called it) about Kreator was in direct reaction to your comments after I suggested Kreator meant more to those I was involved with at the time than other bands did because we'd grown tired of the Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax bandwagons. The Manowar comment was nothing short of tongue in cheek and I have said similar before in multiple threads on this forum. The difference was this time I didn't add an emoticon because it meant more typing.
The Big 4 is a name, the bands included in the big 4 remained popular in their own right all over the world. For many of us the bands themselves were bigger in their own right than they were as a collective, especially once other bands started breaking through. By the 90's, here and with the people I associated with, the term was little more than a buzz word. People liked who they liked and didn't give a shit about any big 4. While we were getting radio shows from the US that talked about the Big 4 we were getting local radios shows and shows from Europe talking about Metallica, or Megadeth, or Slayer, or Anthrax, not lumping them as a group. That was what we got and the Big 4 became less important than the bands themselves.
The Big 4 does suck, and just like you've mentioned Metallica sucks, or Zakk Wylde is a shit guitarist. It's an opinion whether it's taken negative or not doesn't really matter, taking offence because another has that thought is not a healthy way to live life.
Once again the comment about Dukes and Mortification was tongue in cheek. I don't like Dukes, but Mortification were crap for nearly half their life. I honestly thought by the time I got to the part when I suggested one band could out play another without amps you'd see it as a joke. It seems need to add emoticons at the end of everything not to be taken seriously?
Here's a few emoticons in case I forget, or get too lazy, to add them in the future, let me know when they run out.
The rant (as you called it) about Kreator was in direct reaction to your comments after I suggested Kreator meant more to those I was involved with at the time than other bands did because we'd grown tired of the Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax bandwagons. The Manowar comment was nothing short of tongue in cheek and I have said similar before in multiple threads on this forum. The difference was this time I didn't add an emoticon because it meant more typing.
The Big 4 is a name, the bands included in the big 4 remained popular in their own right all over the world. For many of us the bands themselves were bigger in their own right than they were as a collective, especially once other bands started breaking through. By the 90's, here and with the people I associated with, the term was little more than a buzz word. People liked who they liked and didn't give a shit about any big 4. While we were getting radio shows from the US that talked about the Big 4 we were getting local radios shows and shows from Europe talking about Metallica, or Megadeth, or Slayer, or Anthrax, not lumping them as a group. That was what we got and the Big 4 became less important than the bands themselves.
The Big 4 does suck, and just like you've mentioned Metallica sucks, or Zakk Wylde is a shit guitarist. It's an opinion whether it's taken negative or not doesn't really matter, taking offence because another has that thought is not a healthy way to live life.
Once again the comment about Dukes and Mortification was tongue in cheek. I don't like Dukes, but Mortification were crap for nearly half their life. I honestly thought by the time I got to the part when I suggested one band could out play another without amps you'd see it as a joke. It seems need to add emoticons at the end of everything not to be taken seriously?
Here's a few emoticons in case I forget, or get too lazy, to add them in the future, let me know when they run out.
Slammed
Active Member
- Jun 15, 2017
- 31,408
- 45,099
- 113
No tacks would be dangerous!
Dodge ball for us really only appeared in movies. I don't know the rules of it but it appears to be more of a team sport. Poison ball was a two against the rest game. One person at each end of the court/field/hall etc and everyone else in the middle. No catching just out when you get hit. The tape made the ball harder and was really just a bastard act that the school never approved of. Even better was a half taped ball, tape on only one side made the ball swing in the air and it became less predictable at full speed.
Dodge ball for us really only appeared in movies. I don't know the rules of it but it appears to be more of a team sport. Poison ball was a two against the rest game. One person at each end of the court/field/hall etc and everyone else in the middle. No catching just out when you get hit. The tape made the ball harder and was really just a bastard act that the school never approved of. Even better was a half taped ball, tape on only one side made the ball swing in the air and it became less predictable at full speed.
Slammed
Active Member
- Jun 15, 2017
- 31,408
- 45,099
- 113
We used to play a game called British Bulldogs (no idea why it was called that) which by the rules used to see one or two "bulldogs" in the middle of the field/hall/whatever and the rest of the class ran from on end to the other. If the bulldog touched you you became a bulldog. The game ran through to last person standing. Problem was outside of class we reinvented the game and instead of just touching the person it became a game where the bulldog had to take the person down with whatever sort of tackle they could. In the end it got banned and we got threatened with being kicked out of school for playing it because there was too many injuries.
Similar threads
![[KOTNO]Narrot](/data/avatars/s/1/1031.jpg?1052155060){kind=avatar}
