Comments on the technical issues

[Kaosaur]

One technical thing I've noticed is that "traditional" American power metal bands seem to have horrible sound at ProgPower. I noticed it at II with Steel Prophet, and again this year with Virgin Steele. I can't help thinking that Jag Panzer, for example, would probably have a similar issue. What causes this? Is it because these bands ask for their sound a certain way, or are unprepared, or use their own guy? Or (I doubt this is the case) does the house guy not know how to properly work with those kinds of bands?

Or, is it because they both have "steel" in their name?

It's totally the Steel! *cue Mattias' "STEEEL!!!"*

 

[adaher]

So what was the deal with Virgin Steele? I thought the instrument sounds were good, but until like the last song all I could hear of Defeis was when he was wailing. When listening to the albums the wailing sounds cool, but when it's ALL you can hear it makes him sound like a total cheeseball.

 

[ReaLM]

The crew is great; they work there asses off, and they are apparently pretty kick ass musicians too !

As for technical issues this year, it seemed that a few of the bands had sound quality issues.
-Raintime - I couldn't hear the keyboards at all; I even moved all around the venue trying to hear them, but only heard a few notes the whole set. For some reason, people who were upfront at the rail said they could hear them fine...
-Sonata - The bass and drums were way way to loud in the mix. I couldn't hear the keyboards and the vocals over them (which is the reason I love SA). They had better sound when I saw them at the masquerade (and no one has good sound there).(Since SA is on tour I assume they had their own people/equipment, so I was extra surprised by this.)
-Virgin Steele - Sounded like crap.....
-Threshold - My favorite ... I sat right next to the sound board, but the bass and drums were again way too loud and a bit muddled (Threshold was still awesome though).

In contrast, Pagan's Mind sounded flawless. The best sound quality I have ever heard at a concert; they sounded exactly like their cds. And Krucible, Freak Kitchen, Communic, After Forever, and even the Jam sounded pretty good (the other acts I skipped). Unfortunately for me, most of the bands I was most looking forward to seeing had the worst sound...

Robin

 

[MetalRose]

To me, although it sucks (more for the band than for me), that's part of the live show.

If I wanted it to be perfect and sweet and all wrapped up in a bundle, I'd have stayed my ass home and listened to the CD.

No complaints here.

-Metal

 

[Wandrail]

In contrast, Pagan's Mind sounded flawless. The best sound quality I have ever heard a concert; exactly like their cds. And Krucible, Freak Kitchen, Communic, After Forever, and even the Jam sounded pretty good (the other acts I skipped). Unfortunately for me, most of the bands I was most looking forward to had the worst sound...

Robin

Its strange, while Pagan's Mind was certainly way better sounding than Sonata, I still found PM's sound to be too loud for the venue's system. It got a bit better towards the end, but at least from the floor everything was just blaring. There is a proper volume for a venue depending on the size, acoustics, and the capabilities of its sound system - I found it just to be too loud during PM and it screwed up the clarity and tone of the instruments and voices.

Maybe I just haven't abused my ears as much as some other people. I can still hear high frequencies and all that.

The best sound I can recall at ProgPower was at PPIII - I remember every band sounding great! I remember hearing what guitars sounded like, being able to make out words being sung and all of that...was beautiful ... Really up until now there had only been a choice few offenders at past ProgPowers whose sound choices were poor - Symphony X (worst guitar sound i've ever heard!!) and Evergrey both attempted to destroy my hearing with bad sound, but otherwise PP has had pretty good sound...at least in my memory.

 

[Wayniac]

BTT bump for those who haven't seen this thread (I'm still seeing posts about the technical issues)

 

[AngraRULES]

Wayne,

Fuck the naysayers. You guys do an unbelievable job every single year. The sound at ProgPower has always been great. Keep up the good job!

-Milty

 

[Matt Crooks]

Wayne, can you fix my guitar too? I'd like it setup with 8.5s

 

[ReaLM]

Wayne,

Fuck the naysayers. You guys do an unbelievable job every single year. The sound at ProgPower has always been great. Keep up the good job!

-Milty

Yes, the crew does an amazing job, and normally the sound on average at ProgPower is pretty damn good. But is the sound at ProgPower always great? No way. Is this the crew's fault? Probably not. Like Wayne said in his first post, a lot of things are out of their control; they do the best they can.

I haven't seen any "naysayers" on this thread....Just comments.
I can't help but be a little disappointed when I see some of my favorite singers and keyboard players performing their heart out and I can hardly hear a note...

Robin

 

[Wayniac]

Wayne, can you fix my guitar too? I'd like it setup with 8.5s

Yeah man - no prob - just come to me 5 minutes or less before you have to be on stage - and make sure it is a Floyd equipped guitar in some weird tuning.

I can't help but be a little disappointed when I see some of my favorite singers and keyboard players performing their heart out and I can hardly hear a note...

Robin

Yep - kills me too!

 

[Rick Pierpont]

As a person who has been performing live for MANY years now, I think you guys do an awesome job! I wish the crew at Jaxx were a tenth as good as you guys!

I did notice that it seemed like more issues this year, but most of them minor. The only one that really left me baffled and I still wondering what happened was when Floor sang The Final Countdown the first time through. It was weird, I could faintly hear her occasionally. I was up in the seated area right by the soundboard, so I wasn't sure if her mic was working and FOH for her channel was down and I was hearing the monitor OR if she is so powerful that I could hear her over everything else. Could you post some insight to this issue? Even moreso, why it took so long to get her back up and running. I expected to see people running around and didn't which makes me wonder even more.

As far as the sound issues go, I thought the sound was amazing for just about the entire festival! Sure there were some minor technical glitches, but hey, its LIVE! The one thing that suffered the most was the All-Star Jam, but that was a nightmare to pull off with singers changing just about every song and different musicians, etc... so I understand.

Of course, when I wasn't up front (where I expect the sound not to be perfect), I tried to position myself as close to the board as possible. So I got a great mix! I was really blown away with how good After Forever sounded! I could hear every instrument clearly and even - and not the typical bassy boominess you get in most rooms. It sounded like a CD really cranked up. I ALWAYS wear earplugs, so I didn't notice the mix being too loud.

I'd really love to hear from the musicians who played about the monitor mix. This is Jaxx's weakest point as I have NEVER had even a decent monitor mix there -- even for shows I headlined in with Odin's Court. Jusdging by the rest of the quality of the festival, I'd imagine that the monitors mix would be awesome @ PP!

Again, hats off you and the rest of the crew!

 

[Chris-RZ]

AF had ended their set and taken down their gear.

Then we are setting up the All Star Jam...

We have mics for each singer ready to go. They were all Shure... She walked out and was using her mic from her set, which we can assume now that her crew had pulled from the main mix when they were complete. We still had her in our monitors so from the stage, we hear everything fine and we have her really loud. The soundman can hear her, but she isn't loud. There is no reason for him to think that she would be using any other mic, so he is scouring the board trying to find the signal that he can hear, but cannot see on the meters.
We didn't have walkie talkies to communicate with the FOH, so everyone is scrambling once they finally realize that what we hear on stage isn't what they hear out front. The FOH guy can't just run away from the board and tell someone, so there you have it. As soon as we realized from the studio in the basement that sound wasn't coming in through the audience mics, the monitor guy was told and he ran her out the correct mic.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Rick Pierpont]

AF had ended their set and taken down their gear.

Then we are setting up the All Star Jam...

We have mics for each singer ready to go. They were all Shure... She walked out and was using her mic from her set, which we can assume now that her crew had pulled from the main mix when they were complete. We still had her in our monitors so from the stage, we hear everything fine and we have her really loud. The soundman can hear her, but she isn't loud. There is no reason for him to think that she would be using any other mic, so he is scouring the board trying to find the signal that he can hear, but cannot see on the meters.
We didn't have walkie talkies to communicate with the FOH, so everyone is scrambling once they finally realize that what we hear on stage isn't what they hear out front. The FOH guy can't just run away from the board and tell someone, so there you have it. As soon as we realized from the studio in the basement that sound wasn't coming in through the audience mics, the monitor guy was told and he ran her out the correct mic.

Does that make any sense?

Thanks Chris - you rock! And yes, that makes plenty of sense! It explains, why I could hear her [faintly] and why people weren't running around like maniacs the entire time.

I can see that 2-way radios will be added for next year.

And speaking of RZ... its been a LONG time since I've seen you on stage (Powermad, PP1, and PP3). Anything going on with you guys?

 

[sh0kr0k]

This thread makes me happy! I have a BA in Audio Engineering and have been involved in live productions of all varieties for years. I hate to see comments about technical problems because many people don't understand what it takes to put on a show of this calibur... problems inevitably happen, but the speed at which they are resolved is what distinguishes one crew from another. Unfortunately many spectators don't understand see what it takes to resolve some issues and they veiw any break in the music as a "fault" of the crew. Hopefully this thread sheds some light on how much work is being done backstage that the audience never sees, or all the scrambling when a problem happens. Thanks for the superior work each year! You guys are a dream crew!

And thanks for explaining what happened during the first round of The Final Countdown. I was wondering what went wrong. On a side note, I'm very surprised to hear you guys have done all this without communication between monitor, studio, and FOH. How do you do it?! You are truly amazing!

 

[Wayniac]

AF had ended their set and taken down their gear.

Then we are setting up the All Star Jam...

We have mics for each singer ready to go. They were all Shure... She walked out and was using her mic from her set, which we can assume now that her crew had pulled from the main mix when they were complete. We still had her in our monitors so from the stage, we hear everything fine and we have her really loud. The soundman can hear her, but she isn't loud. There is no reason for him to think that she would be using any other mic, so he is scouring the board trying to find the signal that he can hear, but cannot see on the meters.
We didn't have walkie talkies to communicate with the FOH, so everyone is scrambling once they finally realize that what we hear on stage isn't what they hear out front. The FOH guy can't just run away from the board and tell someone, so there you have it. As soon as we realized from the studio in the basement that sound wasn't coming in through the audience mics, the monitor guy was told and he ran her out the correct mic.

Does that make any sense?

Yep - exactly what Chris stated - from sidestage, I could hear her very well...

 

[Wayniac]

This thread makes me happy! I have a BA in Audio Engineering and have been involved in live productions of all varieties for years. I hate to see comments about technical problems because many people don't understand what it takes to put on a show of this calibur... problems inevitably happen, but the speed at which they are resolved is what distinguishes one crew from another. Unfortunately many spectators don't understand see what it takes to resolve some issues and they veiw any break in the music as a "fault" of the crew. Hopefully this thread sheds some light on how much work is being done backstage that the audience never sees, or all the scrambling when a problem happens. Thanks for the superior work each year! You guys are a dream crew!

And thanks for explaining what happened during the first round of The Final Countdown. I was wondering what went wrong. On a side note, I'm very surprised to hear you guys have doe all this without communication between monitor, studio, and FOH. How do you do it?! You are truly amazing!

I don't mind the comments at all... just mind if people think we were not on top off stuff. Like many other musicians on the board/this thread have stated - shit happens live. Spinal Tap is not TOTAL fiction!
Also want to enlighten folks who do not know of all the gear tweaking, signal paths, and other tech issues if they are interested
Trust me - we do an in depth review every year of what worked and what didn't and try to address it the following year . We already have a alist of about 1/2 dozen thinsg that will be tweaked/changed for PPIX !

 

[sh0kr0k]

I don't mind the comments at all... just mind if people think we were not on top off stuff. Like many other musicians on the board/this thread have stated - shit happens live. Spinal Tap is not TOTAL fiction!
Also want to enlighten folks who do not know of all the gear tweaking, signal paths, and other tech issues if they are interested
Trust me - we do an in depth review every year of what worked and what didn't and try to address it the following year . We already have a alist of about 1/2 dozen thinsg that will be tweaked/changed for PPIX !

That's more like what I was getting at, is that people sometimes think technical problems are the fault of a negligent crew as opposed to an inevitable part of live performances. You said it better Seriously, you guys are amazing! notworthy

 

[Photino Decay]

Yeah, I figured I was actually hearing her voice unmiced up in the seats. I was rather ... well ... Floored! But I guess it was a combination of her own voice and the monitors, since I was in the side section. But if the soundman could hear her, it might have been her natural voice. Wow!

Interesting to read the description of the problem. One of those wacky things that happens from time to time...

 

[Kaosaur]

Yeah, I figured I was actually hearing her voice unmiced up in the seats. I was rather ... well ... Floored! But I guess it was a combination of her own voice and the monitors, since I was in the side section. But if the soundman could hear her, it might have been her natural voice. Wow!

Interesting to read the description of the problem. One of those wacky things that happens from time to time...

I was sitting right behind you guys and I heard her too... It was wild. What a phenomenal singer.

 

[Chris-RZ]

Another issue that probably should be cleared up regardless of your feelings of particular brands of gear. Sometimes it is our beloved artists that are f@#%ing up and not the gear. Not even the most amazing crew can make up for an artist f@#$ up... no matter how hard we try.

For instance, Line 6 doesn't suck. In fact it does what it is told. For instance, if you push the volume pedal back towards you it will turn your volume down to nothing. That means if you step on the pedal and then cannot hear your signal... you have the issue... not the gear.

Trust me, if Line 6 gear wasn't any good... we wouldn't use it every year and have bands be blown away by it year after year. Their heads have never failed on us when other heads from much bigger and more famous companies have. Those artists chose not to blame the gear, so we didn't get a chant for them.

Anyone remember hearing Krucible playing, "Pull Me Under"? That wasn't Boogie, baby! It was Line 6 with it's built in effects all the way!
Shane said, "Make it sound like the tones used on, "Pull Me Under". Wayne and I dialed it in ourselves and it was pretty close to the song they then nailed.

I don't care about brand names, it's about what gear truly delivers. Line 6 has delivered year after year without a single issue, so take it easy on the chants that it sucks and remember your hero might just be covering something up.