Conflict Marijuana

[BloodSword]

You make a good point, I was considering one of my friends the other day. I wondered to myself, "Was he stupid even before he was a druggie?". He's a good guy, actually the nicest guy I think I know .. but he definitely injured himself somewhere along the way.

That said, I don't however agree with the second part of your statement in that Marijuana is "gateway" drug. I know a lot of people who only use Marijuana, one such person who has a sever degenerating bone condition and will likely end up in a wheelchair in just a few years. The doctors are amazed, he tells me, that he feels little to no pain; he claims the Mairjuana is definitly benefiting his condition.

The final part here is that assuming health is the primary motivation for it's ban in the first place (which I don't believe but that's another story) the govt should be consistant and either take all alcohol and cigarettes off the shelves, or legalize Marijuana. Like one person said above, people are needlessly being marked as criminals and weighing down the system. Also, I certaintly don't believe the Govt has a right to tell any citizen what they can and cannot do, so long as the practice does not injury anyone else.

Let's face it, in life we make a lot of choices that will eventually determine our fate. This choice is no different. The Govt has no right at all to tell you what levels of awareness you are aloud to experience.

I agree with the statement above. The "gateway" tag, as it were, is nonsense. People will "gateway" using alchohol, which as you know is legal. After working a long day, responsibilites covered, and your relaxing listening to music or watching a movie, for me there is nothing better than burning one end to end. The only side affects are I get hungry and horny. I'm not hurting anyone. This issue people is all about the money. The money corporations and governments can make off the illegality of weed. If it is legalized there "cash cow" dries up. This issue will be argued for yrs to come. So, while all these fat-ass legislators, sipping their 3-martini lunches, passing judgement and legislation on marijuana, I'm going to burn one in their honor.

 

[Neith]

Couldn't they make as much money if it was legalised through taxes, like they do with cigarettes?

 

[Blinded By Blood]

I agree with the statement above. The "gateway" tag, as it were, is nonsense. People will "gateway" using alchohol, which as you know is legal. After working a long day, responsibilites covered, and your relaxing listening to music or watching a movie, for me there is nothing better than burning one end to end. The only side affects are I get hungry and horny. I'm not hurting anyone. This issue people is all about the money. The money corporations and governments can make off the illegality of weed. If it is legalized there "cash cow" dries up. This issue will be argued for yrs to come. So, while all these fat-ass legislators, sipping their 3-martini lunches, passing judgement and legislation on marijuana, I'm going to burn one in their honor.

well said

there's nothing better than ending a hard day or two with a chilled smoke out session with friends. I prefer to only smoke once or twice a week, if that, but it's a relaxing process. The only harm that really comes is some loss of memory and hunger, two easily solved problems(I'm pretty forgetful when not high, always have been)

The government has no argument for keeping marijuana illegal. It's a personal choice, if people want to go and smoke with the money they earned, let them. Hell, stoners and pot smokers cause alot less problems than drinkers, and drinking is legal

 

[Horus]

I wish I'd seen this thread sooner.

I voted No.

 

[Norsemaiden]

The use of pot as a painkiller for medical reasons is certianly fine. I just hate the idea of being hit by a driver who goes down country roads while stoned at stupid speeds. If I was able to change the law, I would give 5 years in prison for "attempted murder by reckless driving" to anyone exceeding the (revised downwards) speed limits by 10mpr. No kidding. 3000 people a year die on the roads in Britain.

Have you heard that cannibis is the most effective "truth drug" that science has come up with? If you get questioned by the police while stoned you will tell them all they need to know. If you have any secrets, don't get stoned (or drunk for that matter) because it is very likely you'll tell all. And don't expect your pot head accomplices to keep their mouths shut either.

 

[Horus]

Cannabis doesn't always necessarily work for the truth. Sometimes, during band practices, when my keyboardist is high, he'll try to explain why some random chord change doesn't work, and somehow, he'll manage to go from that to some endless, pointless ramble about the moon, and how it perfectly orbits the earth, controlling the tides. Now, we just don't let him smoke before band practices.

 

[Heavenscent]

I'm for legalization, not because it's a brilliant thing to smoke pot, but more because I think it would cause a drop in criminal activities, not just by giving it another name but actually reducing the criminal side effects. These include illegal import from which mass distributors profit, and extortion and physical abuse caused by lack of judicial protection since you are a drug user.

Also when illegal, it will be sold by dealers who sell hard drugs, since there is a lot of profit to be made and no severe increase of their risk. This way, many people would end up with dealers who may well get them in touch with more dangerous drugs. Although this might be a rather assumptive train of thought, since I am dutch and it's fairly legal or tolerated to buy and sell small quantities of pot.

 

[Blinded By Blood]

The use of pot as a painkiller for medical reasons is certianly fine. I just hate the idea of being hit by a driver who goes down country roads while stoned at stupid speeds. If I was able to change the law, I would give 5 years in prison for "attempted murder by reckless driving" to anyone exceeding the (revised downwards) speed limits by 10mpr. No kidding. 3000 people a year die on the roads in Britain.

How many of those 3000 die because of pot related accidents? I'd think a pot smoker would drive slower

I never hear of stoned drivers causing problems in the US. Drunks on the other hand...

 

[Demilich]

When I'm stoned, I drive at the proper speed as I would at any time. Not every driver who is high and breaks the speed limit does so exclusively because he or she is under the influence.

I'm not so sure about developing addiction either. Until two weeks ago my girlfriend and I smoked several times a day, including over two ounces the last week before we stopped completely for a few days. I felt fine, no real urge to smoke again, and have since resumed smoking a few times a week, but not nearly every day. I know i'm capable of stopping completely, the only thing that keeps me from doing so is that its just so damned enjoyable.

I also doubt that nobody can have an intelligent conversation while stoned. I wrote several university level (3rd year) A or A+ papers last year while stoned, as well as participating in intelligent and persuasive discussion in and out of the classroom. Hell, even most of my (sometimes intelligent and well thought through) posts on this board probably happened mostly because I was stoned.

To me, the only real problem is the health issue and the stigma I face because of it, which leads to a lot of time spent avoiding my parents and sisters for fear of being discovered.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Okay but how do you feel about your girlfriend possibly having a retarded child, damaged by pot smoking (or any other similar habit)?

Do you think that only men and old women should be allowed to use it?

 

[hibernal_dream]

I also doubt that nobody can have an intelligent conversation while stoned. I wrote several university level (3rd year) A or A+ papers last year while stoned, as well as participating in intelligent and persuasive discussion in and out of the classroom.

Which probably says a lot more about your country's education system than anything else

 

[Demilich]

Okay but how do you feel about your girlfriend possibly having a retarded child, damaged by pot smoking (or any other similar habit)?

Do you think that only men and old women should be allowed to use it?

I don't believe the government should be "allowing" people to use it at all. It is a plant that grows in nature and has been cultivated and used by humans for millenia.

As to the effects on having children, I'm 100% confident in her taking the responsibility to stop smoking/drinking during pregnancy, or before we even try to conceive. Unless there are some residual effects that I'm not aware of, this shouldn't be too difficult.

Which probably says a lot more about your country's education system than anything else

oh you!



I even got special academic distinction & got invited to a special function for faculty in the History department based on my coursework in a class on Medieval and Modern European history. Didn't go (probably too busy toking the reefer!) but it certainly speaks to my ability to carry on intelligent conversation while under the influence.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I don't believe the government should be "allowing" people to use it at all. It is a plant that grows in nature and has been cultivated and used by humans for millenia.
QUOTE]

When I said "allowed" I really meant in your own judgement, rather than allowed by government, as in that you would strongly disapprove.

If your girlfriend is responsible like that then that is fine for you both, but nevertheless the fact that you both use pot increases the social acceptability of it and has a knock on effect of increasing the use of it by less responsible people. So your actions inadvertently lead to damaged babies being born in the same way that if a skillful driver regularly exceeds the speed limit he encourages the less skilled to drive very dangerously. We all have a responsibility to set a good example. So tut tut!
As your grandmother would say.

 

[Demiurge]

Have you heard that cannibis is the most effective "truth drug" that science has come up with? If you get questioned by the police while stoned you will tell them all they need to know. If you have any secrets, don't get stoned (or drunk for that matter) because it is very likely you'll tell all. And don't expect your pot head accomplices to keep their mouths shut either.

No, I have not heard that, nor does it seem to be the case. People tend to blather when intoxicated with psychoactive substances, but that doesn't mean what they're saying is true. There are infamous research programs undertaken by the government(such as Project MK ULTRA), which tried to determine if chemicals could be used to induce people to tell the truth. In fact, though, these were largely unsuccessful and subjects often became even more belligerent than they would otherwise be.

My personal experience has been that a person is more likely to reveal personal information if there is no pressure to do so. Drugs, particularly serotonergic hallunicogens like LSD(which was tried in the Project without success), make people highly resistant to interrogation.

It has been found that long term and daily use of cannibis can lead to respiratory problems (coughing and wheezing) and studies have found certain kinds of cancers in the respiratory tracts of young heavy cannibis users, of a type which are rare in adults over 60.

Actually, a recent study reached the surprising conclusion that the risk of cancer in marijuana users is not elevated at all. I'll track it down, if you want.

Memory loss and increased risk of senility are other risks.

Really? The info I've read indicated that heavy users' cognitive impairment was entirely temporary.

It is scientifically proven to slow down reactions (which means that you would have to compensate for this while driving by being very careful to obey the rules of the road). It is not a stimulant, but a depressant drug.

Alcohol has been demonstrated to impair driving skills more severely than marijuana.

 

[Demilich]

So your actions inadvertently lead to damaged babies being born in the same way that if a skillful driver regularly exceeds the speed limit he encourages the less skilled to drive very dangerously. We all have a responsibility to set a good example. So tut tut!

Yeah just like how every time anyone uses a steak knife to cut a piece of meat, they're concurrently responsible for increased rates of violent crime. I hate that. Fuck steak knives, and fuck irresponsible people

 

[Tabubua]

Smoking pot is like drinking alcohol and smoking tabacco - if done sensibly it should cause no problems.

Trouble is, most people aren't sensible!

 

[hibernal_dream]

Both pot and alcohol are physical highs, which to me is a worthless high unless you really need to relax (and then in any case it would be medicinal use).

LSD and psilocybin are mental highs. From my one time with magic mushrooms it simply amazed me how all my thoughts I was pondering that week became clear, and it wasn't a case of just thinking they were clear: This continued on to the next few days and as contrived as it sounds, it really did give me a new outlook on life and made me enormously happy because of it. Perhaps Conservatist is right - i'm no genius, but if I hadn't been able to resolve my thoughts on the topics I was thinking about at the time, the drug wouldn't have been useful. It might have given me a temporary physical high, but that kind of high shouldn't come from drugs.

 

[Xorv]

Xorv posted a reasonable question on the other thread:

Drug Policy Alliance: Myths and Facts About Marijuana

Freevibe. Main Page

"[T]hey both say the exact opposite [of each other]. Which one is right?"

I think it's valid.

In my experience, most drug problems are the user, not the drugs, but I don't trust most people drawn toward using drugs. A few, maybe a couple percent, are like Oscar Wilde, William Burroughs, Hunter S Thompson or Samuel Taylor Coleridge and are not only responsible but do interesting things on drugs. I think only geniuses should be able to get and use drugs!

Thank you.

 

[Frank the tank]

dont get confused. i can tell by the things you guys say which of you have smoked pot and which havent. let's put it this way. ever heard the phrase ' too much of a good thing'?

 

[Silver Incubus]

Both pot and alcohol are physical highs, which to me is a worthless high unless you really need to relax (and then in any case it would be medicinal use).

I disagree. I have found marijuana can have profound mental effects. I have observed in myself, and in others, that states of mental focus, or trances can be easier to induce, and more effective. Such states I place myself into, I am able to generate intensely vivid mental pictures with my eyes shut, much almost like a lucid dreaming state. Feelings and audio are also enriched by this altered state. Now, I can do all that normally as well and the colour and vividness is very surreal, like a holographic universe created solely in your mind.

Booze is just poison. Although red wine apparently has some beneficial properties.