Conflict Marijuana

[speed]

I have a hard time believing all of these hemp "superplant" theories. Yeah, you can make clothes and paper out of it I suppose, but some of the stuff I've seen is ridiculous. Some of these people would have you believe we could build a spaceship out of hemp or something. I haven't seen any credible, scientific sources that are so gung-ho about hemp.

When high, perhaps stories about the wonders of hemp become exaggerrated.

 

[infoterror]

Hemp makes great fiber. By extension, that means cloth and paper. My only problem with the "hemp is wonderful" people is that they're all potheads. If you want to get high, have the balls to say so, or normal people will think that you're a liar, and with good reason.

Legalize hemp because drugs are a tiny issue in a world of big issues. If you're a conservative, you believe in natural selection and letting idiots kill themselves off. Legal drugs on every streetcorner is a good step toward that goal!

 

[Norsemaiden]

I'd like to know everyone's opinion on something I suspect about drugs. I think that it could be that the kind of drugs that give someone a feeling of an extreme high could damage receptors in the brain to do with feeling pleasure. You know how diabetes can be caused by excessive sugar consumtion, because it stops insulin being produced by the body as the body could not cope with the amount of sugar. Feelings of contentment and pleasure also rely on a hormone (seratonin?) and if this process is interfered with by drug taking it could stop working. So the drug adict can no longer feel anywhere near as strong happy feelings as they otherwise could have. They find only the drug can make them feel good and need increasingly large doses. Is that how the adiction happens?

 

[judas69]

The body is pretty adaptive and tolerant to a lot of strain in many forms over many years, but it still has it's limits and can only take so much consistant abuse before something gives. In otherwords, I agree with what you've said ..and over the longterm, you would almost expect some perminant change / damage, I would think.

 

[Akirahito]

I'd like to know everyone's opinion on something I suspect about drugs. I think that it could be that the kind of drugs that give someone a feeling of an extreme high could damage receptors in the brain to do with feeling pleasure. You know how diabetes can be caused by excessive sugar consumtion, because it stops insulin being produced by the body as the body could not cope with the amount of sugar. Feelings of contentment and pleasure also rely on a hormone (seratonin?) and if this process is interfered with by drug taking it could stop working. So the drug adict can no longer feel anywhere near as strong happy feelings as they otherwise could have. They find only the drug can make them feel good and need increasingly large doses. Is that how the adiction happens?

The addiction comes from the initial happy feelings. But you're right, the pleasure goes away after awhile. However, the physical addiction takes over at this point and basically, therapy is needed.

Let me point out though, that what I have just written is usually only applicable to what are typically referred to as "hard drugs", such as heroin and crack. I don't think marijuana has quite the same effect or short duration for feelings and addiction.

 

[infoterror]

I'd like to know everyone's opinion on something I suspect about drugs. I think that it could be that the kind of drugs that give someone a feeling of an extreme high could damage receptors in the brain to do with feeling pleasure.

I have seen this with methamphetamine cases, but not heroin, cocaine or "natural" hallucinogens. Would not be surprised if LSD and other high intensity drugs caused this however.

 

[Norsemaiden]

If you asked Nietzsche what he thought of drug use he would have said "Blessed are the drowsy for they will drop off". (Yes I know I've used that quote before). That is like Infoterror's idea that you should just let people indulge in their harmful habits rather than try to preserve them against their will.

 

[Goro]

can't we just smoke in peace?

 

[Norsemaiden]

I think Voice of God sort of hit upon this but I'll say it anyway.

It is highly doubtful the masons had any plot or plan in regards to keeping hemp off the market--or anything for that matter. By inference however, the masons are a group of very powerful and well connected men--who join such a group, to further their own connections. Hence, if some masons desired to make more money by prohibiting hemp or anything else, they probably used their masonic connections to do so. This is the real evil, or problem you are fighting. The masons by themselves are negilble; its the connection and networking laid out in such groups, that causes such things to happen.

Exactly, it is indeed the connection and the networking that these men do in their shady club that gives them the power. They like playing at being part of a secret conspiracy almost as a child likes makebelieve - except that if they want to play at this it becomes a reality to a large extent. These powerful men ARE in these masonic groups, Bush has openly admitted to being in the Skull and Bones society. All the mysticism and satanic rituals are bullshit from the point of view of a realist who is not a mason, but they (the masons) like to imagine that it is meaningful and they do plot together - just because they can. And because they are rich and powerful and give favours to the others in their group, it has a huge impact on the world. (And the Masons have proved by their actions to be the allies of the Zionists.)

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

Exactly, it is indeed the connection and the networking that these men do in their shady club that gives them the power. They like playing at being part of a secret conspiracy almost as a child likes makebelieve - except that if they want to play at this it becomes a reality to a large extent. These powerful men ARE in these masonic groups, Bush has openly admitted to being in the Skull and Bones society. All the mysticism and satanic rituals are bullshit from the point of view of a realist who is not a mason, but they (the masons) like to imagine that it is meaningful and they do plot together - just because they can. And because they are rich and powerful and give favours to the others in their group, it has a huge impact on the world. (And the Masons have proved by their actions to be the allies of the Zionists.)

you've just given a pretty acurate description of american government

 

[Lethe78]

I realize that this is an old topic, however I have just discovered it. In fact, I juat discovered this forum; I thought this UM was just metal band discussions and such.

I want to first state that there are plenty of good posts on this topic and I wish I could have gotten into it when the topic first appeared.

I indeed do believe that pot should be legalized for plenty of reasons.

First off, it is a huge money maker for the government. Think of all the taxes they could implement. Sort of like cigarettes. It takes about 12 cents to make a pack of cigarettes, but the last pack I bought was about 3 USD.

I think there would be less crime in the inner cities. What do gangs all fight about? Drugs. Not that legalizing marijuana would eliminate crime, but I do believe it would help to reduce it.

Prison space. Often times I hear that prisons are over crowded. Well... the majority of the occupants are drug related. If that wasn't the case, perhaps we wouldn't let murderers, child molesters, rapists and other undesirables out early due to this lack of space. Just a thought.

I also think it would make it harder to be obtained by minors. When I was a teenager, in school, they started seriously cracking down on underage cigarette smokers. Often times I had a bitch of a time getting cigarettes. But I never had any problem getting weed (I smoked on and off in those days). Nor did any of my friends.

As far as the hazards regarding marijuana, I can't really think of any. Unlike with alcohol, you never hear of a guy smoking a joint and beating the crap out of his entire family.

I have been smoking pot on a daily basis for the last seven or eight years, yet I have managed to keep the same job making decent money for the last 6.5 years. I go to work EVERY DAY and DO MY JOB WELL.

I have keep a 3.67 GPA in school (going for business management).

I certainly don't suffer form antimotivational syndrome. In fact, getting stoned helps motivate me to do the crappy housework.

My driving record has improved greatly. (From the ages of 16 to 20, I managed to get 9 speeding tickets. From 21 till now, [28 next week] only one). This is simply because I do pay more attention when I am driving stoned. I follow more laws and I don't speed.

I find that I am more relaxed and patient with things and people when I am stoned as well.

Certainly I do not view it as a gateway drug; I barely even drink. In fact, studies have overwhelmingly proven that the vast majority of heroin addicts started with alcohol, not marijuana.

I am not going to say that pot is this great substance that everybody should use. That should be a personal choice, and when you look at cigarettes, which cause about 450,000 deaths per year, and alcohol, which cause about 80,000 deaths, and marijuana, which has never been proven to cause a single death, I think it is easy to see which is the lesser of all the forementioned evils.

I am sure that there is more that I want to say on this topic, but I need to get ready for bed so that I can go to work in a few hours.

 

[infoterror]

this is an exciting time, where democracy might actually work they way it is supposed to, majority rules.

What the hell does the majority know? LOL

 

[infoterror]

If you asked Nietzsche what he thought of drug use he would have said "Blessed are the drowsy for they will drop off".

One thing I learned from observing drug users: not all people are equal. Some will smoke pot and do nothing with their lives; these people need simple jobs and rules just to stay productive. Others, like Hunter S. Thompson, can be productive and sometimes insightful.

It varies with the person.

I feel that drugs also reveals a reason for nationalism: different cultures have different attitudes toward different drugs. Muslims are fine with hashish, but don't like alcohol; Westerners tend to be OK with alcohol but not like hashish; African-Americans tend to be OK with marijuana and alcohol but not as fond of some of the more extreme drugs. THere's no one fair law for everyone.

 

[derek]

Others, like Hunter S. Thompson, can be productive and sometimes insightful.

Exactly. I was very fond of how he exited his life. If I recall, he had his body shot from a cannon. A revolutionary of the mind, gotta love him.

THere's no one fair law for everyone.

As with all things. Nothing can be generalised, entirely.

 

[Demilich]

I don't know about this misconception about people smoking pot any laying around doing nothing all day. When I did smoke it a lot, I used it specifically *before* doing things. My favourite time to smoke was before doing something new to me, as the enhanced enjoyment of novelty, learning and experience of life was exhilirating.

I'll admit that I have driven under the influence of marijuana almost every day for the past year, from residential and rural sideroads to multi-lane highways at speeds of over 100 km/h. At no point did I feel particularly impaired in my ability to judge what was around me or to compensate for sudden changes in my surroundings. Often, I listened to music and had a great time while driving, finding myself more focussed on the task at hand.

That brings me to another point: what may be observed as laziness or detachment from the "real world" may simply be intensified focus on a particular stimulus.

 

[Silver Incubus]

I don't know about this misconception about people smoking pot any laying around doing nothing all day. When I did smoke it a lot, I used it specifically *before* doing things. My favourite time to smoke was before doing something new to me, as the enhanced enjoyment of novelty, learning and experience of life was exhilirating.

I'll admit that I have driven under the influence of marijuana almost every day for the past year, from residential and rural sideroads to multi-lane highways at speeds of over 100 km/h. At no point did I feel particularly impaired in my ability to judge what was around me or to compensate for sudden changes in my surroundings. Often, I listened to music and had a great time while driving, finding myself more focussed on the task at hand.

That brings me to another point: what may be observed as laziness or detachment from the "real world" may simply be intensified focus on a particular stimulus.

I would guess that the stimulous would be something internal for these people. It may be thoughts, music, visual hallucinations(like daydreams). Whenever you alter your current state of consciousness, you can go into a trance, I find the pot just makes it easier to go into trances.

 

[Norsemaiden]

It is speculated that one reason why Islam is anti-alcohol is because this has the effect of reducing the number of Jews who live in their countries. Wine is important in Judaism.

It has been found that long term and daily use of cannibis can lead to respiratory problems (coughing and wheezing) and studies have found certain kinds of cancers in the respiratory tracts of young heavy cannibis users, of a type which are rare in adults over 60. Memory loss and increased risk of senility are other risks.

If you smoke it every day you are probably dependent on it, and it is not clever to make yourself dependent on unnecessary things.

Because people are at more risk of unsafe sex while stoned (assuming it doesn't kill the desire) just as when drunk, it causes unwanted pregnancies and spreads venerial diseases.

I have heard that people are incapable of intelligent conversation while stoned.

It is scientifically proven to slow down reactions (which means that you would have to compensate for this while driving by being very careful to obey the rules of the road). It is not a stimulant, but a depressant drug.

Alcohol, when used purposefully to get drunk is indeed equivalent to drug use.

Women smoking cannibis regularly while pregnant have low birthweight babies which has a bad effect on a child's health in adulthood - and the children suffer trouble with memory and concentration.

3 studies have linked pot smoking in pregnancy with increased risk of childhood leukemia in the offspring. So women who may ever get pregnant should not develop such a habit. It would help them if the men weren't doing it.

All in all, the conclusion has to be that it does more harm than good.

I don't know about it being illegal though, because perhaps there could be a good case for also making alcohol illegal then. But the problem, as has been mentioned, is that criminals benefit from these kind of prohibitions. So I suppose it should just be up to the individual to use common sense, and for a responsible government to discourage its use.

 

[Pessimism]

No matter how many pro's or con's people can list for this the fact is the majority of people are idiots and would abuse the usage and/or start lacing the marijuana. If the government had a way to control the THC content and distribute it commercially then marijuana may be legal.

 

[derek]

I assure you such states as outlined by generations of philosophers and psychologists (Leary and James, as to name but two) can be achieved through spiritual awakening and meditation.

The positive effects of these drugs is widely researched. The cultures they spawn are often bastard-children of the original, pure and honest idea.

 

[Sacred Profane]

Yes, let's legalize and increase the number of unhealthy things a person can use.

I think we can legalize when people have shown they can take responsibility for their own actions. Considering the problem drunk driving is causing I think that won't ever happen.
I'm more into making alcohol and tobacco illegal.