Controversial opinions on metal

Uneasy_Conscience said:
Man you are very, very confused. You're not a deep thinker, either. Check it out. In the institution of music, of course the music being played determines certain genres. Rock is rock, classical is classical, jazz is jazz right? But within these genres - heavy metal is the genre we deal with- the vocal delivery is one of the main criteria for distinguishing these sub genres, especially death metal and power metal. Take away the death metal growls from a death metal band, as you suggested, and replace them with clean vocals and there is NO WAY you can call said band death metal. Think about it. Put clean vocals over a Nile song and tell me they're a death metla band. You simpy cannot, and if you don't see why this is, then you don't. But I don't get how this is hard to understand. You've clearly been listening to music in general and metal specifically for all of 4 years maybe. Or maybe the problem is you're not listening to enough metal since you like all that pop shit.
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He may listen to pop, but his mental capacity clearly dwarfs yours, if you still cling to this idiotic notion that death metal cannot have clean vocals, and power metal cannot have harsh vocals.

Uneasy_Conscience said:
Butthead, just read my reply to Mort Confused. Basically the same thing can be said to the above post you just made. You guys who say that vocals have no bearing on genre are absolutely fucking nonsensical in every fucking way. What's the fucking point of having a death metal band if they don't growl? It's so fucking illogical. Musicians in these death metal bands, if you have ever read interviews with them (especially front men) have stated this fact - that vocals are what make death metal bands classifiable as death metal - from Glen Benton to Karl Sanders to Michael Akerfeldt etc. Again, this is not a difficult concept to grasp. If not from me, take it from them? Fuck off.
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Mort Confused, Butthead... that's cute. Even then, you're still wrong; the only way you would be more wrong right now, is if you said the sky is shit-brown with purple polka-dots.

As I said before, you're a fucking idiot if you think that power metal bands cannot have harsh vocals, and death metal bands cannot have clean vocals.

Hows abouts you stop evading my question, and just answer the fucking thing for once: Are you actually trying to tell me that early Children of Bodom, for example, is remotely death metal at all? They lack any death metal characteristics... musically, they are power metal. But OH NOES HARSH VOKULS THEY MUST BE THE DETH METHUL RITE? Come on, answer the question. Give us all a laugh.
 
The Butt said:
As I said before, you're a fucking idiot if you think that power metal bands cannot have harsh vocals, and death metal bands cannot have clean vocals.

Hows abouts you stop evading my question, and just answer the fucking thing for once: Are you actually trying to tell me that early Children of Bodom, for example, is remotely death metal at all? They lack any death metal characteristics... musically, they are power metal. But OH NOES HARSH VOKULS THEY MUST BE THE DETH METHUL RITE? Come on, answer the question. Give us all a laugh.
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They certainly can have other vocal styles, but there's a REASON the phrase "death vocals" or "power metal vocals" evokes a certain sound. Are you honestly suggesting that, by the numbers, low growls AREN'T generally a death metal trait? Or that barking shouts aren't hardcore? High Iron Maiden style vox aren't power metal?

I'll agree that Uneasy's post was pretty belligerent and idiotic, but the fact remains that vocal styles are a big part of the genres. If you had Corpsegrinder singing with Three Days Grace it would sound bizarre, same with if you had ZP Thearst taking over vocals for Burzum.
 
I'm not denying that some genres have a "core sound", and vocals play into that. But to claim that a power metal band utilizing harsh vocals, magically becomes melodic death metal for no fucking reason, other than HARSH VOCALS WOLOLOLOLO is fucking dumb.

Brokencyde uses harsh vocals also... by Uneasy's logic, I guess they're some form of extreme metal now. :zombie: See where his idiotic stance breaks down?
 
LOL I agree with all of that, yeah.

And fuck you for reminding me of the very existence of "crunk core".
 
Why are vocals irrelevant? No one has addressed that. I never said that power metal can't have harsh vocals, but power metal should have mostly clean ones. If vocals are irrelevant, then what's the point of having a vocalist in the first place? Vocals, like it or not, make a difference. I know this is a shitty band to make an example of, but Stuck Mojo is considered rap metal because of their vocalist. If they had a regular metal styled vocalist, they would be considered groove metal. Of course vocals aren't the linchpin that decides what genre a particular artist is part of, but they do play a role.
 
I think this business that a certain genre "should" employ certain vocals is misleading. There is no pure, pristine, ideal genre form to which we can compare bands to. Saying that power metal "should" have clean vocals is to make the mistake of granting the abstract concept of "power metal" some ideal standard.

It's quite similar to the American Christian who, when told a certain person is Jewish, replies: "That's funny; he doesn't look Jewish", as though there are distinctive material features we can use to identify Jewish people. The inherent qualities of a genre (without getting into the argument of whether or not genres actually exist) are determined by the instrumentality of the music. Vocals are superfluous, material signifiers that don't actually pertain to what style of music is being performed.
 
The Sham Mirrors is not black metal. Children of Bodom and Wintersun are not death metal.
 
Not necessarily. Why is it that if vocals don't serve a particular purpose, they can't serve any purpose?

What is being argued is simply that generic distinction isn't contingent upon vocal style. Vocals cannot dictate the genre of music being played. That does not mean that they therefore serve no useful purpose; they just don't serve to designate genre.

For instance, vocals still serve to deliver lyrics and provide another melodic interaction with the instruments (neither of which designates genre).
 
Saparmurat_Niyazov said:
Why are vocals irrelevant? No one has addressed that. I never said that power metal can't have harsh vocals, but power metal should have mostly clean ones. If vocals are irrelevant, then what's the point of having a vocalist in the first place? Vocals, like it or not, make a difference. I know this is a shitty band to make an example of, but Stuck Mojo is considered rap metal because of their vocalist. If they had a regular metal styled vocalist, they would be considered groove metal. Of course vocals aren't the linchpin that decides what genre a particular artist is part of, but they do play a role.
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If this is true (in bold) - which it is

Einherjar86 said:
Not necessarily. Why is it that if vocals don't serve a particular purpose, they can't serve any purpose?

What is being argued is simply that generic distinction isn't contingent upon vocal style. Vocals cannot dictate the genre of music being played. That does not mean that they therefore serve no useful purpose; they just don't serve to designate genre.

For instance, vocals still serve to deliver lyrics and provide another melodic interaction with the instruments (neither of which designates genre).
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Then this (in bold) is most certainty inaccurate. Your argument clearly allows for no exceptions, where one was quite obviously pointed out.
 
Uneasy_Conscience said:
Man you are very, very confused. You're not a deep thinker, either. Check it out. In the institution of music, of course the music being played determines certain genres. Rock is rock, classical is classical, jazz is jazz right? But within these genres - heavy metal is the genre we deal with- the vocal delivery is one of the main criteria for distinguishing these sub genres, especially death metal and power metal. Take away the death metal growls from a death metal band, as you suggested, and replace them with clean vocals and there is NO WAY you can call said band death metal. Think about it. Put clean vocals over a Nile song and tell me they're a death metla band. You simpy cannot, and if you don't see why this is, then you don't. But I don't get how this is hard to understand. You've clearly been listening to music in general and metal specifically for all of 4 years maybe. Or maybe the problem is you're not listening to enough metal since you like all that pop shit.
Click to expand...

Somebody definitely needs to retake metal 101.
 
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