Elric of Melniboné
The White Wolf
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A picture of a giant kid attacking a school playground is much more interesting than a guy standing with his back to me in front of a scenic view.
Controversial opinions on metal
- Thread starter The Ozzman
- Start date
Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
It was drawn by a child presumably, so I don't take your meaning. Kids are crap at stuff.
As to the second part, obviously I'm dealing in extremes. The point I'm trying to make is that if there are objective degrees of badness (which can be seen from the fact that we all agree that the second drawing sucks), there must also, conversely, be objective degrees of goodness.
Edit: Or we don't all agree the second one sucks -_-
Slayed Necros
Void
Contrarian faggots. Wanderer Above the Sea of Fog is amazing.
MrTagoMago
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Hey question before AJFA did Metallica refuse to make music videos like they used to be against the idea?
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Do you know what contrarian means? Because I'm not being one. I agree that Wanderer Above the Sea of Fog is brilliant, but objectively better art means everybody agrees it's better, let me know when you accomplish that objectivity.
Until then I'm happy to stand by the notion that art is subjective.
Until then I'm happy to stand by the notion that art is subjective.
Slayed Necros
Void
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
MrTagoMago
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Controversial opinion. I prefer listening to my favorite bands over listening to your favorite bands unless your favorite bands happen to be the same as my favorite bands.
Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
Objective truth isn't determined by consensus, although it happens to be the case that things that are objectively true and easy to perceive as being so tend to be consensually agreed upon. The fact that people disagree about music isn't proof that musical quality is wholly subjective any more than the fact that people disagree about religion is proof that metaphysical truths are wholly subjective.
Elric of Melniboné
The White Wolf
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Okay, so are you arguing that the quality of music is subjective or what?
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Uh, I hate this debate, it's already happened like 3 times since I joined and it's just so pointless.
You can't objectively prove that x Metallica album is better than x ABBA album...
You can't objectively prove that x Metallica album is better than x ABBA album...
EchoForever
HAIL!
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EchoForever
HAIL!
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also to settle this debate i think the best thing to say is
art is subjective when it comes to taste, but you can objectively prove a piece of art took a larger amount of skill and talent to make compared to another piece of art regardless of taste
IE: i prefer sissy spacek - wreck compared to some megadeath album, but in the end wreck is just noise
art is subjective when it comes to taste, but you can objectively prove a piece of art took a larger amount of skill and talent to make compared to another piece of art regardless of taste
IE: i prefer sissy spacek - wreck compared to some megadeath album, but in the end wreck is just noise
Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
I think it's possible there might be some objective method of proving a given song or artist is better than another if you define the criteria by which quality is decided (more original compared to similar efforts, more cohesive, more well developed, more difficult to be improved), but I agree that it would be really hard and basically impossible to achieve on a forum, which is why I didn't bother trying when Ozzman challenged me to.
The reason I'm arguing this is because the idea that there's nothing in a piece of music itself which can be considered worthy of recognition - that quality is all in the ear of the beholder - is wrong and annoys me. It also annoys me when people say "yeah but that's just an opinion" as if pointing out that an opinion is an opinion somehow proves that all opinions are equal and some aren't, in fact, objectively retarded. Besides, all we do on here is state opinions, so it goes without saying.
Elric of Melniboné
The White Wolf
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It would be incredibly subjective whether or not a song is cohesive or difficult to improve upon. Originality is perhaps a bit more objective, but not necessarily indicative of the quality of a piece of music.
Your purported criteria for objective measurement is very subjective in nature.
Your purported criteria for objective measurement is very subjective in nature.
EchoForever
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Pete Ways had a heart attack
http://teamrock.com/news/2016-08-13/pete-way-suffers-heart-attack
oh shit
dont know why you posted that here though
I posted it here cos I feel weird posting in the news section. Theres too many sections and I am a simple man. Its a bit like when the CB radio was popular and everyone talked on the breaking channel, rather than taking it to another channel.
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Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
I'm not really into musical theory in a big way, but anyone with a good understanding of it could probably distinguish between tracks which develop and resolve motifs intelligently, and tracks that tend more towards riff salad (which is how I'd define the difference between a well developed and a less well developed track).
Improvability would probably be harder to establish, but one simple method would be assessing people's perceptions of cover versions of an artist's songs. Artists whose covered tracks seldom met with a rate of approval greater than the original are less subject to improvement.
Elric of Melniboné
The White Wolf
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Did you just say that some aspects of a song's quality can be objectively measured by whether or not a cover version of the song is popular?
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