Controversial opinions on metal

[ShredHeadJHJ]

I'd rank Cradle Of Filth higher than Dimmu Borgir. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant is the only Dimmu Borgir album which is worthwhile, while Cradle Of Filth released several quality albums in the mid nineties. Dani is still the fagmaster though.

I agree with this. I like CoF but Dani is an ass in person.

 

[Orion Crystal Ice]

I enjoy that 'Colors' album enough to own it, one of maybe 2 or 3 things in the collection that could be called anything-core, but there are moments in a few songs where it's obvious their direction isn't completely realized yet and they're trying too hard.

 

[challenge_everything]

But, as we've seen, the analogy doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, and I still don't see the point in praising bands that are neither particularly revolutionary nor particularly good. There is, in my mind, value in a failed or at least incompletely realized experiment (for example, Cynic's Focus), but not much value in music that doesn't really push the boundaries beyond what is already known or in fleshing out the known in interesting ways. I don't see this as a 'silly prejudice,' but merely as a practical response to limited time and resources.

Here's another perspective. I don't know how much you listen to punk, if at all, but many punk elitists would say that almost everything of value in that genre had been produced before 1980. In my view, a lot of what was produced in the 1970s sounds juvenile and had little depth to it. Whilst it was fresh and original at the time, a lot of it too was a result of inferior musicians jumping on the bandwagon with ill thought-out ideas. Even the truly influential bands had a naivete about their philosophies.

So, moving on to the 1980s, not much was original per se, but it pushed the envelope further: an oeuvre of albums was produced which were faster, more aggressive, more politically intelligent, with better lyrics and more refined songwriting. And musicians who could actually play their instruments. In that sense, the originality of the 70s was overrated.

As you've probably guessed, I see in all of this a parallel with black metal. Whilst a good part of my favourite albums came from the 2nd wave and have a rarified atmosphere of rawness to them, I still think songwriting has progressed in the sense that albums have been produced which are more hateful, or more technical, or draw in more diverse influences, or in some cases just plain better-written. And I don't see why the fact that those albums were written in 2001 instead of 1991 should matter when the music is assessed on its merits.

If you don't see the quality of songwriting in the upper eschelons of modern black metal, there's not much I can do about that, but it seems to me that you place too much emphasis on originality. I don't believe in any automatic reverance ascribed to 2nd wave bands, unless of course it is earned by the quality of the music. I would have no hesitation to say that in my opinion Deathspell Omega's Si Monumentum Requires, Circumspice is a more refined and more intelligently written album than anything by Darkthrone, except perhaps Soulside Journey. That is not a slight on Darkthrone, who rightly have carved their place in metal history, but similarly it should not prevent due recognition going to DSO. Taking the argument to the extreme example, if I invent a musical genre, something thoroughly original in both structure and aesthetic, but execute it poorly, does it automatically make a subsequent artist who flawlessly executed that style inferior to me? I don't think so.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I hate you both!

 

[slowlywerot]

I also think most death metal nowadays is satirical comedic bullshit.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Only it isn't.

 

[Mort Divine]

Only it isn't.

.

Haha, I read an M-A review about Wall of Sleep and the guy said the vocalist sounded like Yogi Bear. Oh man, the way I view them now is forever changed.

 

[The Butt]

Between the buried and me are the best metal band in the past 10 years. they're music is technical as fuck, beautiful as anything else, extremely brutal, their riffs are all amazing, have direction and purpose to the song, each song is structured brilliantly. and thats just the start of it.

thoughts, opinions?

Not sure I'd go that far, but they're definitely a fucking great band.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Haha, I read an M-A review about Wall of Sleep and the guy said the vocalist sounded like Yogi Bear. Oh man, the way I view them now is forever changed.

Yeah, by caspian. Awesome review. That album sucks though.

 

[mutantllama]

The vocals of Devourment make me take them less seriously.

 

[Orion Crystal Ice]

Some of the vocals on Pestilence - 'Spheres' crack me up.

 

[mutantllama]

If they had different vocals, then I would like Devourment a lot more. I just can't appreciate those kinds of growls. But I still enjoy the rhythms.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

fail

 

[mutantllama]

Hey, I said I appreciated the rhythms! (I treat them more as rhythms more than melody.)

 

[Mort Divine]

Yeah, by caspian. Awesome review. That album sucks though.

Yeah, the opening track rules but everything else is kinda lame.

 

[waif]

I'd rank Cradle Of Filth higher than Dimmu Borgir. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant is the only Dimmu Borgir album which is worthwhile, while Cradle Of Filth released several quality albums in the mid nineties. Dani is still the fagmaster though.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I could never get into Dimmu Borgir, even in my early days of black metal.

 

[Cythraul]

I could never get into Dimmu Borgir, even in my early days of black metal.

Me neither. I thought Enthrone Darkness Triumphant was crap even when I was 13. I could never even get into Stormblast. Their later stuff is just unbearable. It's like listening to the Star Wars soundtrack in a gay bar.

 

[Blind Guardian]

I have never liked their two first or anything after Triumphant either. Triumphant however has the same qualities as a good oldschool heavy metal album. It admits what it really is; it aims for catchy riffs and hooks rather than atmosphere or anything genuinely nihilistic, and does a good job in doing so.

 

[Blind Guardian]

I also think most death metal nowadays is satirical comedic bullshit.

And you want to promote Nile of all bands as the antithesis.