Critical Analysis of the 5150

[Dylan S]

I've used my 6505+ with my Marshall cab before and I found it to sound quite good, but not really the overall sound I'm after. This is when using my big Schecter 7 strings with EMGs, etc.

I used my Peavey through my Marshall cab the other day but it wasn't for death metal. I was using an RG 6 string made of mahogany with a flame maple top and a JB in the bridge and was accompanying my little brother for a performance of an Incubus song.

I was really digging the sound I had going that night. It was FAR from a tone I'd use in my death metal band but the sound difference all came down to the cab and the guitar because the settings on the amp weren't touched at all.

 

[JonWormwood]

All I read was "critical anal"

Disappoint

 

[Mikaël-ange]

In fact you don't have to mic it aiming the junction like a v30...or better the distance from the center could be the same, but you don't aim the junction but the cup...because it has a bigger cup.

Sweetpot on g12t75 are between dead center and position 2A

 

[Jaymz]

did I get that right?
we're supposed to learn about an amp by listening to a modeller?
nah, won't work

Agreed

 

[TheWinterSnow]

did I get that right?
we're supposed to learn about an amp by listening to a modeller?
nah, won't work

I didn't post that TY clip to say that was how those amps sounded exactly, I just noticed that some of the tonal differences between the two in the clip sounded very similar (not identical) to what I have experienced with the real amps before. It was by no means to provide an accurate depiction of real amps, as modelers aren't used for trying to nail a realistic tone rather, treat the modeler as a whole new amp in itself.

I have both a british g12t75 and a chinese one and the dustcaps are exactly the same size. The chinese one is around 5yo..

The Genz Benz custom made T-75 is a I believe a Chinese made speaker that is manufactured by Eminence. On their website they claim that the speaker is made in the UK but admit that the manufacturer is Eminence, but the rumor is that they are Chinese made. Obviously they are not celestions by all means.

All I read was "critical anal"

Disappoint

I am sorry to disappoint


After taking a look of the spectrum analysis, I did some corrective eq work, which required 6db reduction of 500, 6db reduction at 2.5K, and a 6db boost at 6k, with a high pass at 61.8 (low b fundamental) and a low pass at 13K.

The corrective eq seems to be a bit drastic, considering that some guys around here do little to no work to their guitars. Also considering that major eq changes highly effect the harmonic content, I raise this question, generally how much eq work is done on guitars for most of you?

 

[Wild Hades]

After taking a look of the spectrum analysis, I did some corrective eq work, which required 6db reduction of 500, 6db reduction at 2.5K, and a 6db boost at 6k, with a high pass at 61.8 (low b fundamental) and a low pass at 13K.

That's a good way to destroy a guitar tone totally...

The corrective eq seems to be a bit drastic, considering that some guys around here do little to no work to their guitars. Also considering that major eq changes highly effect the harmonic content, I raise this question, generally how much eq work is done on guitars for most of you?

Peaks and cuts of 1db or 1,5db max, if I need more it means that there is something wrong in the amp settings/mic position, so the tone must be reworked early in the chain (if possible, of course)

 

[Omega_Void]

...considering that major eq changes highly effect the harmonic content, I raise this question, generally how much eq work is done on guitars for most of you?

With overdriven sounds, distortion product is not spread evenly through the spectrum. So if you get just right amount of distortion recorded, and then make big eq, mix falls apart.

If I can dial in the amps while monitoring the post-eq'd signal, anything goes. Big eq changes may be necessary if compensating for less-than-ideal equipment.

But if amp tone is committed to in recording, eq should be little to none or you trade off one problem for another.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

My guitarist I actually off to get his gear so I can mic his cab in every way possible and see how those results come out. But would I love to get my hands on a real decent quality cabinet, and a decent mic pre. I have gone to a studio before owned by a guy who does hip hop/electronic stuff, threw a 57 right on the edge of the dustcap on axis not knowing what the hell he was doing, ran it through a premp, got the levels did not eq work and the tone came out killer. I spent maybe a whole 5 minutes dialing in the 6505+ and at the time didn't know what the hell i was doing, hell I thought the 6505+ (with a recto cab) sounded so bad that I told myself that I would never buy a 6505 or 5150. The end result was amazing even to my standards today.

 

[arv_foh]

I raise this question, generally how much eq work is done on guitars for most of you?

Just HP/LP last time I tracked a 6505

 

[greyskull]

its not the gear buddy. the gear helps to give you the push over the cliff. but its not as much of a factor as getting the sound in the room. and getting that right with a 57 into whatever pre you got.
keep trying.

 

[Fragle]

its not the gear buddy. the gear helps to give you the push over the cliff. but its not as much of a factor as getting the sound in the room. and getting that right with a 57 into whatever pre you got.
keep trying.

actually, the key is to dial in *the sound* in such a way that it fits the mix. you're perfectly right though.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Well last night I recorded for about 4-5 hours testing another cabinet out and found that the horrible result is the speaker of my cabinet. While the new cabinet we tested sounded hollow and phasey in the room, and didn't fit the mix recorded, sounded much more natural. We are going to pull an old combo speaker which I believe to be much better than the line 6 speakers and give that a run.

its not the gear buddy. the gear helps to give you the push over the cliff. but its not as much of a factor as getting the sound in the room. and getting that right with a 57 into whatever pre you got.
keep trying.

like I said before its not like I am some noob who just started doing this. With my cabinet, getting a good sound in the room is not even remotely possible. As good as the cabinet enclosure is revered to be I can only say that I firmly believe it is the speakers. I still have no way to tell until I get a real 412 fired up, whenever that will be.

 

[Josh Burgess]

Getting a good 4x12 will make a huge difference. Honestly, when I first tried micing up the Mesa recto 4x12, I laughed a bit at how easy it was to get a good tone. It's not rocket science. Some cabs mic up way better than other cabs... I think it's pretty easy to get a good sound out of the recto cabs...

 

[nwright]

What cab is the T75 in right now?

My biggest beef with all of this is in the first post when going on about all the issues you have you state the tonal characteristics of the T 75 and the 5150 as "flaws".

 

[Force666]

This thread is confusing. Are we talking about Celestion G12T-75s or Eminence 75watt speakers?

 

[Harry Hughes]

Getting a good 4x12 will make a huge difference. Honestly, when I first tried micing up the Mesa recto 4x12, I laughed a bit at how easy it was to get a good tone. It's not rocket science. Some cabs mic up way better than other cabs... I think it's pretty easy to get a good sound out of the recto cabs...

Ah, but didntcha know, that cab sucks :

Randall Smith can go fuck himself, I would much rather buy an avatar or if I get the money, a bogner cab.

The next cab I'll get will be a Boogie Recto OS 4x12 thanks.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

What cab is the T75 in right now?

My biggest beef with all of this is in the first post when going on about all the issues you have you state the tonal characteristics of the T 75 and the 5150 as "flaws".

Its a G-Flex 212

I shouldn't have said flaw, as I later stated the issue was more of the fact that I didn't think that the 75 complemented a 5150 very well.

This thread is confusing. Are we talking about Celestion G12T-75s or Eminence 75watt speakers?

Honestly I couldn't tell you, GB claims the speakers are custom british speakers called 1240-V75. The word on the street/internet is either that they are Chinese speakers or that they are Eminence's custom remake of the T-75 for Genz Benz. Honestly, I really don't know where the truth is, the speakers don't have any sort of labeling or sticker, its completely bare.

Ah, but didntcha know, that cab sucks :



The next cab I'll get will be a Boogie Recto OS 4x12 thanks.

I never said the quality of the mesa stuff is bad, I just have huge beef with Randall Smith.

 

[lolzgreg]

G12-T75s aren't easy speakers to deal with. I don't like them at all, really, hence why I don't own any cabinets with them. That's my opinion; no one has to like it or agree with it. I sold my Mills Acoustics cabinet because it sounded better in the room than my Mesa Recto 4x12, but not under the microphone. I have priorities.

The moral here is that certain speakers don't work with certain amps at all. I really think this thread is going nowhere and causing pointless arguments.

Andy says his 6505 is his favorite amp. It's been used on more recordings by more people than just about anything aside from Plexis, Deluxe Reverbs, and JCM800s. If you're having an issue with this amp, it's user error. Not trying to start an argument. It's just obvious that it works, as do G12T75 speakers; you just need to pair them up with the right gear.

Get a Greenback, a G12H30, a V30, or a CL80, and pair it with your 5150. Call it a day.

You really ought to take pink noise spectrum analysis from several different high gain amps. You're not going to see earth shattering differences. They really don't look like that at all after it goes through a power amp into a speaker. The highs are about 6x lower, and the lows 4x higher. What matters is the tone coming out of the speakers or the impulse you make from it. It's like trying to argue a raw kick drum sounds boxy when you first record it in a small room. You're not going to use that raw sound in your mix. You're going to process the shit out of it to get your final tone. That is what matters.

Everyone else here has said it; the 5150 is not a scooped amp. It has a ridiculous amount of mids and wherever they sit, they happen to really do the job for a lot of metal music.

I never said the quality of the mesa stuff is bad, I just have huge beef with Randall Smith.

No matter what beef you have with him, the cabinets his company make perform better under a microphone for modern metal than most cabinets made by other manufacturers, period. To buy an inferior cab because you don't love the guy who makes them sounds like a bad business practice if it will better your guitar tone.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

The moral here is that certain speakers don't work with certain amps at all. I really think this thread is going nowhere and causing pointless arguments.

That was what I was saying from the beginning, my current speaker just isn't working right with my amp. Unfortunately as you said regarding arguments, just me criticizing the combination some people would rather get offended not finish listening to what I said and not carry a generally deeper conversation about gear rather than noobs asking simple questions about gear.

Andy says his 6505 is his favorite amp. It's been used on more recordings by more people than just about anything aside from Plexis, Deluxe Reverbs, and JCM800s. If you're having an issue with this amp, it's user error. Not trying to start an argument. It's just obvious that it works, as do G12T75 speakers; you just need to pair them up with the right gear.

I have played 5150/6505 on Mesa OS, Marshall cabs and Peavey cabs before, and from as long ago as that was I can say that I am not having an issue with the amp. I never said that I disliked my or any 5150, quite the opposite, I love them. As little gear that I do have I have been open minded as to what the issue was but thinking about it, why would I even second guess a 5150, I first second guessed whatever the hell speaker is in my cab, and I should have kept that conviction.

Get a Greenback, a G12H30, a V30, or a CL80, and pair it with your 5150. Call it a day.

Not a CL80 fan myself, but honestly I am torn between greenbacks and v30's. I have heard one clip of a G12H30 in an uberkab and though that sounded better than the v30, but I would have to play, listen and spend a couple days micing up each speaker to get an idea for which one I like better.

You really ought to take pink noise spectrum analysis from several different high gain amps. You're not going to see earth shattering differences. They really don't look like that at all after it goes through a power amp into a speaker. The highs are about 6x lower, and the lows 4x higher. What matters is the tone coming out of the speakers or the impulse you make from it. It's like trying to argue a raw kick drum sounds boxy when you first record it in a small room. You're not going to use that raw sound in your mix. You're going to process the shit out of it to get your final tone. That is what matters.

The pink noise spectrum was the result of micing the cabinet, the result literally came from the sound that the speaker was producing. I didn't use the preamp out for that test.

 

[lolzgreg]

The pink noise spectrum was the result of micing the cabinet, the result literally came from the sound that the speaker was producing. I didn't use the preamp out for that test.

I don't see that being possible. I have never seen a guitar spectrum analysis where the high end outweighed the low end in terms of gain.