Dakryn's Batshit Theory of the Week

[Thoth-Amon]

Agreed. I want poor people to continue to suffer financial ruin when they get sick.

Not just poor people... middle class as well.

 

[cookiecutter]

Nobody wants poor people to suffer financial ruin. Cut it out with this holier-than-thou bullshit.

If this legislation doesn't pass that's exactly what will continue to happen and if you want it to fail you are accepting that this state of affairs is okay.

 

[The Ozzman]

I want it to fail if it's inequitable to even one group of persons. It needs to be fair for all persons.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Hey Mike, have you heard of this thing called reality? There's no fucking way a healthcare bill that's "fair for all persons" is going to pass through Congress, and if you somehow think the system we currently have is more fair than what this bill is going to make it, I'd sure like to hear how that is so, as well as what ass crack you pulled this idea out of.

 

[The Ozzman]

I pulled it out of your mother's ass crack

I never said the current system is fair as it clearly isn't.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Then why do you expect the next one to be perfect?

 

[The Ozzman]

Fuck you

 

[zabu of nΩd]

you =

 

[divine_torture]

Go on...

 

[The Ozzman]

If that represents 'tired and cranky', then yes

 

[Dak]

Agreed. I want poor people to continue to suffer financial ruin when they get sick.

Apparently with the economic and social policies you advocate, you want the poor AND the middle class to suffer financial ruin whether healthy or sick. Which is what is going to happen if we keep going this direction.

@V5: Why do you still come into this thread?

@Eligos: Neocons are just as ignorant and poisonous as "liberals". However, labor unions are filth for the most part. Legalized extortion.

 

[Einherjar86]

If this legislation doesn't pass that's exactly what will continue to happen and if you want it to fail you are accepting that this state of affairs is okay.

There are other alternatives to ameliorating the financial situation of others. Just because some people would have this reform fail doesn't mean they don't support some other kind of reform that also proclaims to benefit everyone. The current state of affairs is not okay, and it's unfair to say that people who don't agree with the proposed legislation believe everything's fine.

 

[The Ozzman]

I just think it's bullshit that the government would fine/incarcerate people for not getting insurance. There's really not much of an 'option' in that type of plan then

 

[Cythraul]

If this legislation doesn't pass that's exactly what will continue to happen and if you want it to fail you are accepting that this state of affairs is okay.

Yes, I want it to fail, and at the same time I don't want the status quo to continue on the way it is. So no, I do not accept that the current state of affairs is okay.

This is exactly why I don't like discussing this sort of shit with people who identify as liberal. Why the hell does nearly everything have to turn into some pissing contest about the moral status of one's intentions? Whatever. Keep stroking your fucking ego.

 

[cookiecutter]

There are other alternatives to ameliorating the financial situation of others. Just because some people would have this reform fail doesn't mean they don't support some other kind of reform that also proclaims to benefit everyone. The current state of affairs is not okay, and it's unfair to say that people who don't agree with the proposed legislation believe everything's fine.

It's nice that you think that but in reality there are only two options. The current obviously imperfect reform bill or nothing. Maybe if the Republican party had goals other than sabotaging Obama they would propose a competing bill but everyone knows that's not going to happen. Maybe you personally would propose some sort of magical free market solution but you know the majority of the American right wing is content with the status quo. Recognizing that situation why not support the only thing will do anything to help the millions of uninsured people regardless of its imperfections?

 

[Einherjar86]

It's nice that you think that but in reality there are only two options. The current obviously imperfect reform bill or nothing. Maybe if the Republican party had goals other than sabotaging Obama they would propose a competing bill but everyone knows that's not going to happen. Maybe you personally would propose some sort of magical free market solution but you know the majority of the American right wing is content with the status quo. Recognizing that situation why not support the only thing will do anything to help the millions of uninsured people regardless of its imperfections?

Because I should be able to make the choice whether or not to do so.

 

[skeptik]

I'm pretty sure no educated 'liberal' leaning individual whole-heartedly supports this fraud of a bill but is jaded and pessimistic enough to acknowledge that this is most likely the best it's going to get. I would want this bill to fail if I knew something better would come from it, but I'm hedging my bets on that not happening. The way it looks, poor people will ultimately be worse off if the bill doesn't go through, because I do not realistically see anything better coming down the pipeline. More people are forced to file for bankruptcy due to hospital bills than anything else, you know (I think, but am too lazy to double check), so I would say that this bill is very relevant to cookiecutter's admittedly loaded response to the antagonism against the bill in question.

 

[Koude Haat]

This bill is a step in the right direction that will hopefully lead to a single payer system. (not likely but maybe..)

36 million more people will be insured or become eligible for Medicaid
There will be a trillion dollars raised to help subsidize this.
There will be multiple measures to help control the costs of Medicare
We will stop subsidizing private insurers in Medicare Advantage
Closes the donut hole
Allows Medicare negotiation for drugs
Includes the seeds of a public option
Prohibits denials based on prior conditions; ends rescissions except for fraud
funds more education for doctors/nurses
Begins dozens of health prevention programs, pilots, surveys
Creates entities to evaluate and recommend better treatment, cost saving



The public option in this bill isn't nearly good enough but it raises medicaid coverage to 150% of the poverty line, outlaws recissions, and prevents insurance companies from raising premiums based on gender and medical conditions.

So yeah, dodens is correct in saying this is the best thing we are going to get. But honestly this is probably going to get gutted by the senate. With a public option you lose votes from Snowe, lieberman etc.

 

[skeptik]

The public option has no Joementum.

 

[Cythraul]

Because I should be able to make the choice whether or not to do so.

.