Dan, do you question existence?

[Kenneth R.]

Strange that the original poster did not make reference to Infestdead. I would recommend a listen. Quality Swanö hooks throughout and genre-typical fun lyrical content...

There are a few things I have never understood about Religion (some of which have already been cleared up by Silent Song in other discussions).

Why are people in the USA so religious (seems much more so than any other "Western" country)?

Why do religious people care about the lyrical content or spiritual direction of music? To me, vocals can be a story, but more often than not I hear them as another "instrument within the music". For example, I do not speak any Swedish but I adore the Sörskogen track. That and years of listening to undecipherable DM. Music is music, religious music is something different that bears little relation to most of the world.

Why do religious people always think they are correct?

Why are they usually hypocrites (not referring to you here Kenneth!)?

Just a little fuel to the fire for the moral minority that obviously have all the answers...

Let me see what I can do.

1. Why is the US religious? - Well, I would argue that it isn't! There is a big facade of commercialized religion in the 'States, but the majority of them are not genuine believers. It's a fashion statement, a pseudocult in which they go through the motions and say the words, and don't truly live it.
2. Why do they care about lyrical content? - My personal opinion on this one is that I accept all positive content. I listen to pro-Christian music, pro-Pagan music, pro-Fantasy and music that is just made for the sake of music. I don't care at all, so long as the message is not hateful and degrading to other people's beliefs and person. I respect people's right to express their own beliefs, but I don't think it's cool to tear down others, regardless of what they are.
3. Why do they always think they are correct? - In short, ignorance. No one is perfect, and nobody knows all the answers. We can all learn.
4. Why are they usually hypocrites? - See the answer to question 1.

-K

 

[AlexGuinness]

The Christian bashing Christian does it again...!

Good answers.

 

[gar977]

I agree with Silent Song in some ways, not ALL people who call themselves Christians in the states are true believers and live their lives for Christ. There are two types.. serving Christians and self serving Christians. Dont be fooled by the self serving! They do not follow what is biblical. But, the forefathers of the U.S. established the country as a christian country-half had Christian Seminary degrees(look it up) This is how the U.S. became such a great and moral nation! Most powerful nation in the world. Rome fell because of its sin, but once was a great Christian nation. Gate, you just arent listening to anything intelligent so I wont continue in this vein. No one knows all the answers, but if you dont research these things for yourself and just listen to the opinons of others you will never know anything.

 

[paradoxile]

Strange that the original poster did not make reference to Infestdead. I would recommend a listen. Quality Swanö hooks throughout and genre-typical fun lyrical content...

There are a few things I have never understood about Religion (some of which have already been cleared up by Silent Song in other discussions).

Why are people in the USA so religious (seems much more so than any other "Western" country)?

Why do religious people care about the lyrical content or spiritual direction of music? To me, vocals can be a story, but more often than not I hear them as another "instrument within the music". For example, I do not speak any Swedish but I adore the Sörskogen track. That and years of listening to undecipherable DM. Music is music, religious music is something different that bears little relation to most of the world.

Why do religious people always think they are correct?

Why are they usually hypocrites (not referring to you here Kenneth!)?

Just a little fuel to the fire for the moral minority that obviously have all the answers...

I have a few different answers from a little more jewish perspective
1.The US is so religious because teleavangilsts like Tammy Fey and Creflo Dollar and others emphesize on the forgiving nature of Christ and the fact they can always talk to christ and he would listen. It's much more convenient to talk to Jesus about how sorry you are for doing something bad to someone than to actually ask for this man's forgivness in person. I'm off course talking about the Christian fab and not about the Genuine believers.
2.Religious people think they are correct bacuse if they became religious, it's probably because they were brought up this way...there is no evidence that any religion is right so a belief in certain religion and following certain rules is a matter of pure blind faith.In resulting people don't compare religions and rules and don't question anything.proving these people's religion is wrong would be destroying their world.To deffend the human tendency to arrogence they believe they have found the way and they're the only ones that are right.
3.They are usually hypocrites because if you're not a genuine believer(a believer for the sake of believing without a personal agenda) then you believe because it's convinent and makes them feel good about themselves even when they do bad things.
4.about the caring for lyrical content I just have somthing to say.
I have quite alot of religious jewish friends who like Death metal and some of them even have death metal bands even like listening to KATATONIA's "JHVA...Elohim Meth" which is hebrew for "(God's name)...God is dead" which stands against everything they believe in. And they're not hypocrites because they refer to music as a story and not something real.
It's a story about a world without god as oposing to Nazi music which is calling to exterminate all "inferior races" FOR REAL.
Those people who complain on the anti-god content of certain musicians are simply bored people who look for something to be disturbed by.They Claim these contents corrupt the youth without any evidence to base their claim on.

 

[AlexGuinness]

Thank you for taking the time to write that.

I appreciate that this is not the place for theological discussions, but as the questions were raised, I could not resist the provocation.

It is refreshing to see that the responses are positive and hardly symptomatic of the knee-jerk reactions that I am so fond of baiting.

Respect where respect is due.

Dan's music speaks for itself, it does not matter if it has lyrical content or in what language that may be. The music is truly inspiring, some beautiful, some harsh with an amazing catchy groove, some with lyrics that can be completely personal to me as well.

Why question the music?

 

[Naglfar]

The US is religious for a lot of reasons, and it doesn't have as much to do with the forefathers as it does with the nature of the original colonies. Many of the original colonies were established by people fleeing religious persecution, and as a result the religious element is deeply ingrained in the collective American psyche. The founding fathers may have been religious, but Hamilton, Adams, Washington, and Jefferson were all very worried about the role of religion in politics. Hamilton simply would not tolerate any sort of active role of clergy in politics, and Washington pretty much agreed with Hamilton on this. Jefferson was a Deist (later a Unitarian), and really did not think organized religion would survive for long in the US, and at most everyone would become a Unitarian Christian.

One of the biggest reasons the US is religious also has to do with American exceptionalism; the idea that the US is the "city on the hill", looking down on the world, a place of higher values and a better life, this has been very influential in maintaining religion as part of the core of American ideology. It's not just that Americans are religious, it's that their self-image is one of moral superiority. This is very arrogant in one way, but remember the reason you have people in Congress nowadays screaming at George Bush over torture allegations in secret CIA prisons, saying "we don't torture people", is because Americans accept that they hold themselves to a higher standard. Now Americans (or any other country, for that matter) rarely meet this standard, but nonetheless it's one of the reasons why Americans are at the same extremely self-righteous, but also deeply and genuinely ashamed by things like the torture incidents in Abu Ghraib.

 

[Kenneth R.]

the forefathers of the U.S. established the country as a christian country

No! They were wise because they allowed people to believe freely in what they wanted! That was the beauty of America, that is now corrupted.

Dan's music speaks for itself, it does not matter if it has lyrical content or in what language that may be. The music is truly inspiring, some beautiful, some harsh with an amazing catchy groove, some with lyrics that can be completely personal to me as well.

Why question the music?

This is what I love about music, and especially Dan's.

In response to the arrogant nature of American society: I totally agree.

 

[paradoxile]

No! They were wise because they allowed people to believe freely in what they wanted! That was the beauty of America, that is now corrupted.
This is what I love about music, and especially Dan's.

In response to the arrogant nature of American society: I totally agree.

I actually said the arrogant nature of mankind not just America.
The arrogance of man doesn't allow him to accept the different because according to one's point of view he's wrong.Why question my beliefs when I can bash other people's beliefs?
This arrogence is the reason for all the wars,crusades,massacres,terroristic acts throughout the history of man. All because people can't accept the other by resisting their own urges.

Oh yeah , I like Dan's Music too

 

[gar977]

No! They were wise because they allowed people to believe freely in what they wanted! That was the beauty of America, that is now corrupted.~

I dont see how thats corrupted. People are free to worship anything they want in U.S. But, America was attacked by Muslims who dont approve of us and hate us-the World Trade center. Why would we accept people who are trying to destroy us?!

Here are things that prove the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation.



The Mayflower Compact.


Founding father William Samuel Johnson's overtly Biblical public school graduation address.


Benjamin Franklin is widely regarded to be among the least religious of the founding fathers. However, his speech given to Congress on June 28, 1787 asking that Congress have a prayer every morning before conducting business was overtly religious in nature. The text of this speech can be viewed at the Library of Congress's web site at these links: Page 1, Page 2, Page 3.


The Library of Congress web site has a page titled Religion and the Congress of the Confederation, 1774-89. Among the documents listed are the first English language Bible (Aitken's Bible) that Congress officially sanctioned for use by American citizens on September 12, 1782.


The October 11, 1782 congressional proclamation that declared Thanksgiving Day a day the nation was to give thanks to God for a variety of blessings.


Daniel Webster, one of our founding fathers, emphasized the importance of Christian leaders and Christian principles in civil government

 

[gar977]

Here is more information and an interesting read, its a site from the United Kingdom-not U.S.

Many polls have shown that the populations of Islamic nations like Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and many others strongly supported the attacks against America on September 11, 2001. In their minds, the barbaric, savage tactics used in this and other acts of terrorism are justified in a battle they characterize as Islam versus Christianity and the Jewish nation. Christians are persecuted in these countries to the point of even being killed. Because Islam is a false religion that promotes a false god, it should be vigorously opposed by Christians in America and elsewhere. We should not be embracing Islam as another equal path to God. There is no path to salvation other than faith in Jesus Christ as our savior. All other paths lead to Hell like or not. For more information about why Islam should rightly be considered a spiritually dangerous false religion, see the answering-islam.org.uk web site.

 

[Naglfar]

Here is more information and an interesting read, its a site from the United Kingdom-not U.S.

Many polls have shown that the populations of Islamic nations like Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and many others strongly supported the attacks against America on September 11, 2001. In their minds, the barbaric, savage tactics used in this and other acts of terrorism are justified in a battle they characterize as Islam versus Christianity and the Jewish nation. Christians are persecuted in these countries to the point of even being killed. Because Islam is a false religion that promotes a false god, it should be vigorously opposed by Christians in America and elsewhere. We should not be embracing Islam as another equal path to God. There is no path to salvation other than faith in Jesus Christ as our savior. All other paths lead to Hell like or not. For more information about why Islam should rightly be considered a spiritually dangerous false religion, see the answering-islam.org.uk web site.

Ixnay on the Bernard Lewis / Sam Huntington "clash of civilizations" thesis, alright? People in the Middle East hate Western powers because they feel that 1) they support the dictatorships that sell their oil in return for political support and 2) these same dictatorships blame the Western powers and "Zionism" in the abstract for their domestic problems, a tactic that has worked especially well in the countries you've mentioned (except Syria).

Syria is a particularly funny example to bring up, because if I recall correctly, sometime in the early 1970s or 1980s Hafiz al-Asad saved the Christian militias from being completely overrun by PLO forces, in order to preserve the political balance (one that favored continued Syrian dominance) in Lebanon. In fact, being a Christian is not that big of a deal for Muslims. There are plenty of Coptic Christians in Egypt, Maronites in Lebanon, and Christians in Iraq; overall it's better to just say you're Christian when traveling in the Middle East than heathen or Jewish.

As for Iran, that is a much, much more complicated situation. If there's one country that has legitimate security concerns with regards to US policies, it's Iran. We financed a war against them from 1980-1988, using Iraq as our pawn, in which thousands of their soldiers were gassed. Throw that in with 25 years of support for the Shah of Iran, arguably one of the Cold War's most detestable and ruthless dictators, and I think Iranian animosity towards the United States is rather justified. But also very tangible. Khatami worked very hard to improve ties with the West. It wasn't until recently, when their current nutcase bigot president stole the last elections, where you can really say Iran was following a knee-jerk Islamicist foreign policy.

You're starting to get really bigoted, and I don't think you belong in this forum arguing this, because it's a music forum and I get the sense that the people who come here don't come here to listen to religious banter that not only offends their sensibilities but insults their intelligence. Just stop, really. You're making me embarrassed for being American.

 

[AnTz0r]

Is there a moderator on this forum except for Dan? If not, Dan, please cut this short.

I believe that this forum is no place for this discussion. There is a section on UM called "The Philosopher" - maybe people should move this discussion there.

 

[Naglfar]

Yeah. If you want to make anti-Islamic commentary for no particular reason other than you hate or look down upon people who aren't Christian, you might want to try the Billy Milano forum. There's enough hate and racism in that forum to make the entire UM forums look bad, you'll probably feel welcome there.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Yeah. If you want to make anti-Islamic commentary for no particular reason other than you hate or look down upon people who aren't Christian, you might want to try the Billy Milano forum. There's enough hate and racism in that forum to make the entire UM forums look bad, you'll probably feel welcome there.

I agree.

the hate you show towards other people's beliefs is very UN Christian of you. gar977.

 

[Maron]

Is there a moderator on this forum except for Dan? If not, Dan, please cut this short.

I believe that this forum is no place for this discussion. There is a section on UM called "The Philosopher" - maybe people should move this discussion there.

I totaly agree! As amember of the band (Nightingale ) I reaky like to see/read discussions and opinions about the music (not just N-gale of course) lyrics etc, but for the love of god grin: ) please leave out this religious mambojambo! Just like in the rest of the world it just stirs up more hate and anger than bringing people toghether.
"It goes on and on and on, it's Heaven and Hell...)

 

[AnTz0r]

yes, and we have already learned what heaven and hell is about

so, please, let's cut this short. maron, maybe you could tell us more about you i can't remember you posting here before, maybe i didnt notice cause i didnt know you were in nightingale. are you the bass player or the drummer?

how did you get to be in nightingale, what kind of bands did you play in before, what are your favorite bands? please let us know usually it's always the "main men" of bands who get to speak, now let the rhytm section shine

so let's move away from the reli-discussion

 

[Maron]

yes, and we have already learned what heaven and hell is about

so, please, let's cut this short. maron, maybe you could tell us more about you i can't remember you posting here before, maybe i didnt notice cause i didnt know you were in nightingale. are you the bass player or the drummer?

how did you get to be in nightingale, what kind of bands did you play in before, what are your favorite bands? please let us know usually it's always the "main men" of bands who get to speak, now let the rhytm section shine

so let's move away from the reli-discussion

Long story short: I started out in my early teens in various local bands(i actually joined my first band when i was twelve). I have played guitar and vocals and for quite some time bass has been my main instrument (along with vocals). Dag and I have played together since the early ninties. My first colaboration with Dan was with "Godsend" on the Wayfarer...album. My first contact with N-gale was when we did the first live shows in -98. Then the Swanö brothers did the "I" album. A couple of years later i was asked to join the band for some concerts and a possible album(Alive Again) . The rest is history .

 

[Kenneth R.]

You did a great job on that and subsequent albums

 

[gar977]

Silent Song, there is not hate in Christianity. But, we stand firmly in our beliefs and will not back down from terrosists no matter what religion they are. Hate for protecting ourselves? You should know that from people bombing your train stations-innocent people, but I guess you dont care and thats sad..

 

[gatedropper]

Come on Gar. We asked nicely and want to talk to Maron, not a Moron.