Dave Mustaine vs. Jon Nödtveidt

[MFJ]

 

[spaffe]

I was asking Erik or anyone that has the answer, he said Satanic bands are the opposite of the Church of Satan so I'm wondering what that is. Do they worship the Christian devil? The dark forces of the universe? A hooker with a dysentery?

To clarify on the MLO part: CoS's doctrine is (as I've understood it) simply a philosophy on how to live your life, while MLO is an order of sorts where a mystical experience and invocation of whatever they're worshipping (the forces of chaos I guess) is the essential thing.

 

[Ayeka]

... and one of the ten commandments is "Thou Shalt Not Kill", right?

Those damn xtians can't tell their arse from their elbow with all these contradictions

But, anyway, I always thought Satanism was down to the individual in some respects...

 

[KILL TULLY]

Satanism isn't a cult and it isn't a religion.

www.churchofsatan.com

Jon has done no research, and he speaks from his ass.

Are you retarted? The CoF is false comercialized atheism in the guise of Satanism, and Jon is an Orthodox Satanist who doesn't follow the "Satanic Bible" which is really just a book full of nonsense and atheism.

He has done far more research into the Occult then you, or the Atheist involved with the Church of Satan.

 

[KILL TULLY]

Why, because it is actually a viable alternative to Christian thought, but without getting into the idiotic cartoon aspect of most "Satanic" bands?

Have you done any research into Satanism? I'm not saying you havn't...but from the sounds of it that may be the case. The reason Orthodox Satanists despise the Satanic Bible so much is because it has NOTHING to do with the worship of satan, or any of the things he tought in the Bible. Its just a bunch of bullshit strug together by LaVey and marketed under "Satanism", when in truth as I said before it is just Atheism. Also, to say that Satanism is a "Viable Alternative to Christian thought" is completely the wrong idea. Satanism shouldn't be for the masses, and as many will say the Left Hand Path isn't somthing that is fed to you, like Christian thought, it is somthing you have to go out and find for yourself, digging through the libraries and bookstores. Reading the the Bible and seeing between the lines, taking in your own information.

EDIT: What I mean is that a ton of "Satanic" bands just use the imagery but don't really worship the devil, they just like the cool lyrics and such.

The whole point is that the Church of Satan DOES NOT worship the Devil, nore do they even accept that he is a real person. The ENTIRE Satanic Bible is about developing your ego and becoming a self-rightous elitist Atheist, who hides under the Sigel of Baphomet.

Oh, good to know that the MLO somehow knows the "true" definition of Satanism.

When they talk about "True" Satanism they mean Satanism that actually ACCEPTS Satan as being real, and not just a representation of self-centered Atheism.

 

[Mormagil]

... and one of the ten commandments is "Thou Shalt Not Kill", right?

It's actually "thou shall not murder", so if you can justify it, go nuts!

 

[Nate The Great]

Are you retarted? The CoF is false comercialized atheism in the guise of Satanism, and Jon is an Orthodox Satanist who doesn't follow the "Satanic Bible" which is really just a book full of nonsense and atheism.

He has done far more research into the Occult then you, or the Atheist involved with the Church of Satan.

You're exactly right that the Church of Satan is a bunch of athiests. They've never claimed to be anything else.

 

[Nate The Great]

When they talk about "True" Satanism they mean Satanism that actually ACCEPTS Satan as being real, and not just a representation of self-centered Atheism.

So if they believe in Satan as a real person/power/whatever, they have to believe in God. They also have to believe that God created Satan, threw him out of heaven, and has been dominant over Satan ever since. They also have to believe that God has been dominant over all evil since the beginning of time. Because in fact, anything we call "evil" is simply mankind's free will.

Why fight for a losing cause? At least the Christians know how to pick a winner.

 

[JayKeeley]

It's actually "thou shall not murder", so if you can justify it, go nuts!

I've seen it listed as "thou shalt not kill" more often than "thou shalt not murder", but you're right, both are listed depending on your reference. I wonder which one is correct, because there is a VAST difference between killing and murder.

 

[JayKeeley]

Nah, I'll just ask one of my local rabbi taxi drivers, the same ones that resent dinosaur fossils.

 

[Mormagil]

Heh, there's actually a school of thought that believes God created the fossil record and geological formations that appear much older than they actually are, just to fool us.

 

[Ayeka]

So if they believe in Satan as a real person/power/whatever, they have to believe in God. They also have to believe that God created Satan, threw him out of heaven, and has been dominant over Satan ever since. They also have to believe that God has been dominant over all evil since the beginning of time. Because in fact, anything we call "evil" is simply mankind's free will.

No they don't. Why do people say this?

 

[KILL TULLY]

So if they believe in Satan as a real person/power/whatever, they have to believe in God. They also have to believe that God created Satan, threw him out of heaven, and has been dominant over Satan ever since. They also have to believe that God has been dominant over all evil since the beginning of time. Because in fact, anything we call "evil" is simply mankind's free will.

Um, of course this is what the bible says? And Christians easily accept this and take what they are tought at face value. Thats the POINT of satanism, to look at the OTHER SIDE of these myths and legends, and to see why Lucifer (the Bringer of Light in the bible) was cast away from heaven, down to hell, and to interpret this themselves. You are doing a very god job justifying Satanism. YES, true satanism is part of the Christian mythos, but NO it is not a following of the Christian beliefs, nor the 10 comandments...the Bible tells Christians that God has the power over all evil, but this does not mean that it is true, or correct, and it certainly is not as simple as that. Thats what people like Jon, and other followers of the occult are trying to follow, they are following the "Between the lines" of every mythos out there, the darker sides, the sides that the Torah, Qu'aran, Bible, and other texts, that arn't readily tought, or readily fed to the masses to be spouted out as rules and guides to a simple, healthy life.

Why fight for a losing cause?

Because true Occultists don't turn religion into a rebelious popularity contest. This isn't Wicca we're talking about. Its not about winning or loosing, its not about impressing your mallgoth friends, its not about scaring your parents/society. This "cause" isn't loosing, it never will go away. Its a personal thing, and therefore not trying to "win" anything.