death metal murders on BBC2

Moonlite said:
I'd like to say that the reason I like Opeth so much is because they are such great musicians and they don't need an image to sell their music.

well said my man, well said.
it was funny watching the guy having barbed wire wrapped round his mike stand and cutting himself, what a load of shit.
opeth rule cause (without sounding like a nob) there real and bloody talented
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I demand a picture of teh said "Black metal Monk"....!!!!.........must see pic now......!!!.....hahaha......PEAC EOUT
 
CAIRATH said:
No. That is not what Satanism is about at all. Satanism (or atleast LaVey's Church of Satan, I guess there probably are lots of random people who call themselves Satanists who have their own views, like those Italian kids from the documentary) mainly preaches indulgence instead of abstinance and they see Satan not as a being but as the true nature of mankind, basically. They only adopted the name Satanism because they see their religion as the antithesis of Christianity which they consider weak and hypocritical.
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Exactly what i was going to say after reading Moonlite's statement. I'm sure many other people have an individual belief of what hell is. I'm sure for many, the idea of hell is not that of torture but more of performing the taboos within life.
Personally i am agnostic bordering on atheism. I do not believe in Heaven or Hell, i doubt the existance of God and the afterlife. The only way we will truly know whether or not they do exist is when we die. If there's an afterlife, i'm sure we'd soon find out!
LaVeyan Satanism's 11 rules of Earth are quite agreeable ideas (bar 4 and 7 :p) and i naturally avoided the clauses in their satanic sins but generally it sounds like narcissism and arrogance. Christianity also has some agreeable ideas but it's been corrupted over centurys and still is even to this day.


Haha, okay we have a new incentive to find the Funky Monk! We have to do it for WAZ!
 
the opeth affinity said:
did anyone see the documentary one BBC2 'death metal mursers'.
some italian kid and his girl we 'sacrificed', he played in a band called 'infliction'.
It also talked alot about 'Deiceide', the florida based metal heads and also ',mayhem', who i personally think are shit.
It also had a part about slayer who were blamed for coz this guy listened to them and their lyrics made him do it, anyway, i always thought slayer where thrash metal not death metal?
anyway interesting stuff but man, their is some people who take lyrics way to literally
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Yea I saw it.

Just proved to me how stupid some people can be. "The Beasts of Satan" were just a few tossers giving regular metalheads a bad name by taking it all too far.

I'm interested to hear Infliction, though I doubt they'll be any good. Personally i dislike Decide, although Glen Benton (who i thought'd be a proper knob end) came off as quite normal :err: .

Mayhem I really can't stand, seems too much like style over substance. Oh look at me I've put a knife in a pig heads yay!!

Would you like a medal?

It's stupid when parents blame bands for stuff like this, I say if they'd been better parents and realised when this was all going too far and kept an eye on who their children hung about with, their kids wouldn't be dead. Sympathies to the Italian feller though, he seemed like a good bloke.

You're correct, Slayer's thrash metal (the heaviest of thrash metal alongside stuff like Sepultcura), but you already knew that. They're a massive influence on death metal though and any one who says otherwise is lying to themselves.

Was a decent documentary though.
 
Mentally fucked up ppl will always kill other ppl it doesn´t have anything to do with wether or not they listen to death metal or other types of death/suicide oriented music ala Marilyn Manson.
 
I don't doubt that in some cases the kids were influenced by the music - it could be that the lyrics sparked an interest in the occult because of the mention of Satan. I disagree that the majoritory of them are based around the music though and i'm sure that if you were able to examine the murderers you'd find that most of them have something wrong with them mentally. But to rule the influence of music out completely would be as stupid as immediately blaming the influence of music.

What i'm totally against is how the assumption rises that all people who listen to death metal are sooner or later going to fall prey to satan and go on a killing spree. People fail to have any faith in others - it seems that the smartest and most accepting people i know are 'metallers'.
 
It is pretty annoying though. People who like metal are smart for liking it, because it's the best and widest genre of music in the world. And then the BBC go and say all of these people are evil and satanist. They're just trying to destroy the image of good music. Scratch that... excellent music.
 
BRI said:
It is pretty annoying though. People who like metal are smart for liking it, because it's the best and widest genre of music in the world.
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Sorry, but that made me snort with laughter and derision.
 
Personally, I think the BBC did a good job with the program, not taking sides while showing both sides of the argument. And the monk rules.
And to those who said that people were scared of them because of the program: Didn't happen here because everyone was watching Little bloody Britain.
 
ChrisEmerson said:
to be fair, they did say at the end of the program that it cant be blamed on metal, there are similar crimes done by non metal fans etc.

I thought it was good, apart from the bbc thinking slayer was death metal.
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Slayer are not usually seen as a death metal band, but I guess you can't expect a BBC documentary to be super-sophisticted about the genre distinctions. I think Slayer have inspired a lot of Death Metal bands with their lyrics as well, even if the bands they influence don't play a thrash style of music.
 
opeth_353 said:
it seems that the smartest and most accepting people i know are 'metallers'.
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Exactly it's the Townie, Chav types who are the closeminded trouble makers...
 
I watched the documentary on it. It quite predictibly focused on possible links between the music itself and its possible influence in making people do things detrimental to society for probably four fifths of the program, before someone who actually spoke some sense came on and disputed all the knee jerk crap (Including some pretty cool parents of some Norwegian kid who just saw it as fantasy and nothing more).

Black Metal got a real bad rap from it, especially when they talked about Mayhem and the church burnings etc.....and so did Slayer.

The really great part was some Monk who stuck up for the scene, who allegedly loves the music and says quite rightly that much of the lyrics and such are just showmanship and posturing to emphasise the intense music. The guy from Stanford also was there and talked a lot of sense.

Most of the time i was just pissing myself laughing at the whole thing though, blaming a music genre for the ills of the world - ludicrous. However I wont deny that perhaps the lyrics of some of these bands could be a trigger for some of these disturbed kids, entirely different from the idea of the music turning perfectly "normal" people into psychopaths, which a lot of idiots on there were adamant about. If a country were to ban a brand of music for its lyrical content then they would have to ban quite a few movies too.

People tend to think of the world too much in black and white, usually stupid people who also happen to be looking to blame something or someone for their ill fortune.

X + Y does not always equal Z.
_________________
They say "you can't judge a book by its cover". What nonsense. The last ed of High School Anal that I bought featured a young lady stuffing a big one up her ass on the front page, and this turned out to be an excellent indication of the contents.
 
I read about some research into movie violence that was looking for connections with real violence and its conclusions were similar to what I feel about metal with violent lyrics. What the study concluded was that violent movies don't make people any more violent than they would be, but that people with violent tendencies do seek out violent movies. A lot of of totally normal people who never cause any trouble watch violent films too.

I suspect that disturbed teenagers, the one in a million kids here and there who are capable of murder, do gravitate to cultural things that have violent content. It might even fuel their fantasies to some extent, but who is to say that they wouldn't do something equally cruel and dangerous if there were absolutley no cultural influences of any kind with any negative content?

You have to respect the grief of parents who have lost their children because they met the wrong crowd and were unlucky, but I guess it doesn't mean they know any more about Psychology than anyone else.
 
Heckelgruber said:
I read about some research into movie violence that was looking for connections with real violence and its conclusions were similar to what I feel about metal with violent lyrics. What the study concluded was that violent movies don't make people any more violent than they would be, but that people with violent tendencies do seek out violent movies. A lot of of totally normal people who never cause any trouble watch violent films too.

I suspect that disturbed teenagers, the one in a million kids here and there who are capable of murder, do gravitate to cultural things that have violent content. It might even fuel their fantasies to some extent, but who is to say that they wouldn't do something equally cruel and dangerous if there were absolutley no cultural influences of any kind with any negative content?

You have to respect the grief of parents who have lost their children because they met the wrong crowd and were unlucky, but I guess it doesn't mean they know any more about Psychology than anyone else.
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That makes a lot of sense. I search for progressive and black metal bands because i like that style of music - maybe these kids search for bands with violent or occult lyrics because they're into it :confused: I don't know. I can't truly empathise because i've never known the feeling that they've gone through. I've never looked at or interpreted any lyrics as literal truth.

I do believe that the blame lies quite prominently on the parents though. My ex-girlfriend's strictly religious family forbade her from watching certain programmes, listening to certain music, buying certain magazines and even stopped her from eating certain foods. She holds a deep resentment towards them and would break the rules in secret on a regular basis. She'd talk about how she wished she could take revenge or run away. I also know a Catholic Italian family and i'm friends with one of the sons as he was in primary and is in secondary school with me. The parents would ban him from buying videogame consoles because they stopped him from reading the bible and they made him read it at night. There are more details but they're not neccessary to know, all you need to know is that he too resents his parents and would deliberately cause trouble in school to upset them. He also started listening to Pantera and Slayer because he knew it would infuriate his parents.
With Fabio Tollis what i imagine happened was that, seeing as religion is a huge focus in Italy and a lot of European societys, he grew up with a very religious family. He began to resent how his family expected him to accept and believe in the things they expected him to. He started looking at music that they would not like, and in turn it led to him starting to listen to death metal. He started reading the lyrics and noticing they had violent/occult lyrics and he liked how they were the antithesis of what his parents stood for. He then met other people (Beasts of Satan) who liked the sort of music he did, who probably held similar resentment, held similar ideas and would reinforce eachother's interest in the music and progressively the lyrical content. With them going to the club to get drunk and drugged up they probably shared more extreme and personal ideas that were against the status-quo of society. Under their altered state they would be more willing to accept what they're being told and start to pose more questions. I'm going to let you work out the rest because this post is way too long for anyone to read and take in/find interesting. :Spin: :tickled:

In a sentance- the parents and society are to blame. :grin:
 
Jude said:
Sorry, but that made me snort with laughter and derision.
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Give me a genre that is as diverse and has grown so much in it's small lifetime as metal.
Thought so.
 
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