death metal murders on BBC2

Poor old Fabio Tollis, according to the programme he was hanging out with the other Beasts of Satan guys and taking part in their slightly Blair Witchy-looking things but not being that serious about it. The show mentioned that he had been mocking the others a bit. I think they killed the girl as a dumb "sacrifice" and maybe him because she was his girlfriend and he had been taking the piss anyway.
 
Ah yeh, i had forgotten about that. From what i remember it said he was into it at first then started taking the piss because they took it too far.

Has anyone found or got a picture of the Funky Monk yet?!?!? We need it for Waz! Come on people, i've been searching, do you part to get the picture for waz!
 
BRI said:
Give me a genre that is as diverse and has grown so much in it's small lifetime as metal.
Thought so.
Rock and roll. Of which metal is a subgenre. For one.
 
Also - With regards to religous parents forcing and censoring things from their children: I think this is ridiculous, and is one of the things that annoys me most. Ive never had experiences like this, but it is fundamentally wrong to deny your child free thought / freedom of expression. Parents are trying to force their children to follow their own beliefs, rather than letting them form their own.. and its bad parenting in my opinion.

With the censoring certain types of music from them, the parents are usually misinformed, and dont really understand the appeal of the music... its about the music, not about the fact that it's satanist or whatever.

I really feel sorry for anyone who has to grow up being spoonfed religion by their parents, with no chance to explore things for themselves, and this usually ends up with the child rebelling and becoming interested in the other side of things anyway.

Sorry for the rant but it annoys me when people try and force their views upon others (this includes street preachers, anyone with a 'meat is murder' sticker or similar - its called a food chain... get with it. also anyone trying to boycott nestle without really knowing why. only because 'its what all my student friends are doing and it makes me feel good about myself'. grr)
 
In regards to your comment about street preachers, I take a slightly different, and somewhat lighthearted perspective on them.
I was sitting on the steps of Flinders st station (and for you Australians who know this place, NO I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE FAGGY GOTH KIDS WHO HANG OUT THERE ALL DAY), and across the road I heard some guy preaching the word of Jesus or some crap. I turned to the guy next to me and said something along the lines of "I really believe God is up there...and that he likes me. Or else why would be put this retarded street preachers here for my own amusement?"

My brother saw PETA protesters out the front of KFC one day, so he bought some chicken and started eating it and rubbing it all over his body in a seductive way saying "This chicken tastes SOOOOO much better now that i know where it came from."

There are plenty of idiots out there. So do something that employs them as unpaid entertainment for you.
 
Unfortunately, I did not catch this documentary, as I only get BBC America and I did not know it was on. Else I'd have caught it. However I do have some opinions concerning some of the topics discussed herein.

Bands are obviously influential. Music is a terrific way to influence both cultural and individual behavior, and vice versa. In the 1960's, the American music scene influenced the culture and the culture influenced the scene. Sex drugs, decadence, hippies, etc. It is what it is because the people living in the culture make the music about the culture. The most frank example of this is early gangsta rap. People like NWA, Ice-T, Snoop Dogg and Tupac were writing music about the world they lived in- complete with rampant crime, drug use and police brutality. It became popular because the message was one of fighting the man, lashing out at authority, and indulging one's own desires. White kids who had never even talked to a cop, I'm sure, identified with this because of the simple message of rebellion. A scene was formed.

Now let's look at metal. It's the same message- fighting the man, lashing out at authority, indulging one's own desires. The best metal has always been about serious ass-kicking, no way around that. The main difference between the messages in rap and metal, however, is the spiritual aspect. I have heard plenty of metal talking about Satan and demons, but I've heard very little rap music on the subject. Tech 9ine is about the only the only one I know of, and his music is mostly about drugs and killing and fucking ho's.

But what is the effect of Satanic metal? It is somewhat of a scene to itself. If it weren't, bands like Deicide and Akercocke and Goatwhore and Dissection wouldn't be that popular. Does it make people sacrifice virgins to Satan or burn churches or draw pentagrams in goat's blood? I would say, no more than rap music makes people shoot a cop or beat up a woman. Every person needs to be responsible for their own behavior.

However, there is such a thing, in both morality and law, as being an accessory. If you coerce or ask a person to commit a crime, you are equally guilty. In the Bible, Christ warns against causing your brother to stumble (ie: commit a sin). It is not fair or moral to totally absolve these bands from the behavior of those who listen to their music. Like Uncle Ben said, great power brings great responsibility. If you have this wonderful freedom to spread your message of evil and Satanism to the masses, then you should not be surprised, nor absolved, when those who listen to it and accept your message turn out to make some rather poor choices.

The bottom line is, a good bit of popular music involves destructive and irresponsible themes. That's rock and roll, pure and simple. But there's a line somewhere that can be discerned, between what is destructive and what is evil. Whether you believe in evil or not, you must admit that the behavior reported of some of these artists (church burnings, murder, cultery) is dangerous and in some cases unlawful. It is the same for rap music- drugs, guns, violence, objectification of women- the difference seems to be that black people never blame Snoop Dogg for their weed habit, or Old Dirty Bastard for when they bring a gun to a club.

There has, as of yet, been no real way (at least in America) for any authority to deal with those 'accessory'-type influences. Censorship, beginning with Elvis and mostly ending with Marilyn Manson, was an utter failure. Throughout the years, censorship has only made its 'victims' more popular, and in many cases icons. In a free society, any artist can be as destructive or lecherous as they please, and the leavings of this influence- the resulting behavior of the listener- is left entirely in the listener's hands.

Ponder this for a moment: A band records an album, but secretly records a track under the sound that is inaudible to the ear, but reaches the subconscious and influences the listener to commit a crime or harmful act. After this act is done, who is responsible? If it is the band, why are they responsible when the influence is plain to hear, but not responsible when it is not?
 
You make an interesting point there, RDreamer. With this perspective, we can take some of the focus AWAY from the metal scene, and start pointing our crooked fingers at music that sucks in an attempt to villify acts that manage to deteriorate the moral fabric of society. How about a group that blames teen idols such as Britney Spears and Christina slagface for causing their 13 year old daughter to have sex, get preggers and do drugs? That would be a perfect world for me.

We could try to take this a step further. Blame country "artists" (lol) for inciting terrorists attacks against their own people by builing up such a high level of blind patriotism that an entire nation becomes ignorant of the rest of the world, indulges in a hedonistic lifestyle, and is generally a bunch of cunts to less fortunate people.

The possibilities are seemingly endless. It's time to fight fire with fire.
 
I think it might be difficult to make the claim that a metal artist is ever an accessory to a specific crime because of the content of their music. Even if the artist is actively glorifying certain types of criminal behaviour, they are not addressing a specific person or inciting them to commit a specific crime.

Whenever some kids do something awful and then say "The Haunted made me do it" it's still a fair defence for The Haunted to say that they weren't addressing those kids or telling them to do that thing. It would be quite a different thing if someone they knew told them or paid them to do it.
 
I am aware that it would be difficult, if not impossible, and probably undesirable to label any band an accessory to a crime. Just as every band has the freedom to express a message, listeners have the freedom to listen to whatever they please so long as they are law-abiding citizens. This is our responsiblity as consumers.

Now, chomps brings up an interesting point regarding pop music. How many teenage girls have gotten pregnant or contracted STDs or become sexually active too soon in life, while being influenced by the music of some of our modern pop-princesses such as Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera? To me, this is (at least temporally) more of a social problem than Satanism. Not confusing this with cultery or Luciferianism, it's pure humanism and self-centered hedonism, and while it's irresponsible it's certainly not dangerous or overwhelmingly destructive.

Then there is rap music. It is a culture into itself and the biggest scene in music at this time, but much if not most of it objectifies women as sex objects, glorifies violence and greed, and encourages rebellion against authority. It also encourages wearing your pants very low and exposing your boxer shorts to the general public, which is my main concern. For goodness sakes, someone could trip and knock out a tooth!

But again the difference is, Judas Priest among others have been tried by the courts as being responsible for crimes committed by their fans. I've still never seen any black guy say "Ludacris made me do it" after, say, holding up a liquor store or "R. Kelly is responsible" after having relations with an underage girl. Certainly the media seems to take a dim view of rap music's message and tries to blame at least some of the culture's problems on it and its artists, but it doesn't seem to me like its listeners hold that view at all.

What is it about music, that the most destructive messages make for the most emotionally charged music? What does it say about the nature of humanity, that violence, sex and drug use attract us the most in our art and expression?