Discussion on upcoming 'Other' thread for GMD Votes series

[unknown]

The only thing with some of the smaller genres is how big of a voting pool would you get? Areas like death, black, doom, and trad are pretty widely listened to and received a lot of votes (just look at the black metal one). I'm not sure how many would go for prog on here since most of the people here don't like/listen to prog metal or have an extensive enough knowledge of the genre (just using prog as an example)

 

[no country for old wainds]

i don't think anyone's seriously considering having threads for other genres, just an 'other' thread. and another death metal thread now oz's worked out what he's doing, which is great 'cause i wasn't around to vote first time round.

if ozzman isn't interested i might throw up a 21st century one after these are done with, or maybe even do a year by year poll or something (but without the top 20 top 10 top 5 etc, else we'd be here til 2050). i'd probably just gather all the ordered votes and then do a countdown announcing the collective top 20 in reverse order or something. cross that bridge when we eventually come to it.

 

[Nephilim96]

but at least they're better than anathema

 

[The Ozzman]

i don't think anyone's seriously considering having threads for other genres, just an 'other' thread. and another death metal thread now oz's worked out what he's doing, which is great 'cause i wasn't around to vote first time round.

if ozzman isn't interested i might throw up a 21st century one after these are done with, or maybe even do a year by year poll or something (but without the top 20 top 10 top 5 etc, else we'd be here til 2050). i'd probably just gather all the ordered votes and then do a countdown announcing the collective top 20 in reverse order or something. cross that bridge when we eventually come to it.

I'm done after the next three installments so have at it.

Or do it between trad and when I take my break

 

[Burkhard]

i'd prefer this list if it included non-metal that's tangibly related to metal or would appeal to metalheads. bit of a loose, arbitrary guideline but i'm fine with that personally.

I second this. Otherwise one can have endless discussions why a certain band/album should be allowed or not. And who is the one to decide and with what authority? I mean, if the majority of those taking part in the voting process think an album doesn't qualify, it won't get far anyway, so there's no harm being done. If there is a thread "Other", it should include anything metal-related which didn't fit into any of the other four threads and it shouldn't be restricted to only a few specific subgenres. There are bands who don't fit any subgenre properly, but I don't see why they should be disqualified just because you can't label them (OK, maybe some can). Thus with regard to the example mentioned in the opening post, I think a band like Celtic Frost should be included (even though I'm not a fan of them). A band I would like to include and which - IMO - doesn't fit into any subgenre (though they are a metal band) are Madder Mortem.

Another band I would like to include are Sieges Even. While their debut "Life Cycle" might be disqualified, because it was Progressive Thrash and thus could have been mentioned in the "Thrash Metal"-thread, their second album "Steps" surely qualifies as Progressive Metal, whereas their third album "A Sense of Change" - while definitely being progressive - might already cause discussions if it's still enough metal or not. Still I would like to include it - if there aren't too many other albums I like better.

I'm also thinking about including Bergtatt's "Røtter" (maybe depending on how long my list in the first round gets). It's mostly Folk Metal/Rock - where exactly do you draw the line? -, but it also contains one Doom Metal song ("Daudens klør" - one of my faves on that album) and an acoustic instrumental. Does this mixture disqualify them? Why?

So, would shit like Voivod - Nothingface and Anacrusis - Screams and Whispers go in here?

I surely will include "Nothingface" - which I consider Progressive Metal, though not in the vein of Dream Theater -, which means it would at least get two votes, wouldn't it?

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

power for sure

 

[Krow]

My list is just going to be a stoner/doom and sludge fest, with some Agalloch thrown in.

 

[Draehl]

I'll be a test subject again. Here's my top 20 in order. Poke at any that don't belong.

Opeth - Blackwater Park
Tool - Lateralus
Agalloch - The Mantle
Moonsorrow - Verisäkeet
Electric Wizard - Dopethrone
Dordeduh - Dar De Duh
Wardunra - Yggdrasil
Ghost - Infestissumam
Wardruna - Gap Var Ginnunga
Falkenbach - ...Magni Blandinn Ok Megintiri...
Opeth - Still Life
Isis - Oceanic
Iced Earth - Something Wicked This Way Comes
Agalloch - Ashes Against the Grain
Finntroll - Jakens Tid
Myrkgrav - Trollskau, Skrømt Og Kølabrenning
Rammstein - Sehnsucht
Tyr - By the Light of the Northern Star
The Sword - Age of Winters
Sig:Ar:Tyr - Godsaga

 

[Krow]

I would say bands not on MA should probably be excluded.

 

[Draehl]

I would say bands not on MA should probably be excluded.

A fair enough standard if we opt to go by it, though I could poke some holes in their logic -

Rammstein is way fucking heavier/distorted than Ghost.
Tool is significantly closer to metal than Wardruna.

I'm fine with it though if we agree to it =D

 

[The Ozzman]

So that means Rush is eligible? They are on MA...

 

[Krow]

No because what theyre listed as has already been covered.

 

[Draehl]

No because what theyre listed as has already been covered.

I wouldn't consider them traditional metal. They're really a hard prog rock band with metal leanings/influenced a lot of modern prog metal. That's, again, where we get to the other line of thinking regarding influencing metal (Rush), associated acts (Wardruna - via Gaahl) generally liked by metal fans (Tool)

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I'll be a test subject again. Here's my top 20 in order. Poke at any that don't belong.

Opeth - Blackwater Park
Tool - Lateralus
Agalloch - The Mantle
Moonsorrow - Verisäkeet
Electric Wizard - Dopethrone
Dordeduh - Dar De Duh
Wardunra - Yggdrasil
Ghost - Infestissumam
Wardruna - Gap Var Ginnunga
Falkenbach - ...Magni Blandinn Ok Megintiri...
Opeth - Still Life
Isis - Oceanic
Iced Earth - Something Wicked This Way Comes
Agalloch - Ashes Against the Grain
Finntroll - Jakens Tid
Myrkgrav - Trollskau, Skrømt Og Kølabrenning
Rammstein - Sehnsucht
Tyr - By the Light of the Northern Star
The Sword - Age of Winters
Sig:Ar:Tyr - Godsaga

If you ask me, Ghost would have belonged on the traditional heavy metal thread and that Iced Earth would have belonged on trash or trad. I don't see how it's an "other" album.

So that means Rush is eligible? They are on MA...

Meh. I love Rush, but I don't think they have any albums that are sufficiently metal to qualify.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I wouldn't consider them traditional metal. They're really a hard prog rock band with metal leanings/influenced a lot of modern prog metal. That's, again, where we get to the other line of thinking regarding influencing metal (Rush), associated acts (Wardruna - via Gaahl) generally liked by metal fans (Tool)

Which albums would you consider sufficiently metal?

 

[Draehl]

If you ask me, Ghost would have belonged on the traditional heavy metal thread and that Iced Earth would have belonged on trash or trad. I don't see how it's an "other" album.

Ghost are pretty well liked around here. I just went back to the heavy metal thread and didn't see a single mention of Ghost on any of the pages. I think they're to traditional heavy metal as Stoner is to Doom. Close, but not quite the same.

Fair enough on IE.

Meh. I love Rush, but I don't think they have any albums that are sufficiently metal to qualify.

Agreed. But they're on metal archives. That's Krow's line of thinking, which is totally a fine view to take as its an easily referenced standard. And again, with the influence on metal, if we want to consider that.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Proto of my list:

Agalloch- The Mantle
Agalloch- Marrow of the Spirit
Arcturus- The Sham Mirrors
The Gathering- Mandyloin
Graveland- Immortal Pride
Graveland- Memory and Destiny
Isis- Oceanic
Lantlos- .neon
My Dying Bride- The Angel and the Dark River
My Dying Bride- Turn Loose the Swans
Neurosis- Through Silver in Blood
Neurosis- Enemy of the Sun
Opeth- Morningrise
Opeth- Still Life
Oranssi Pazuzu- Muukalainen Puhuu
Peccatum- Lost in Reverie
Skepticism- Stromcrowfleet
Theatre of Tragedy- Velvet Darkness they Fear
Theatre of Tragedy- Aegis
Tristania- Widows Weeds

I wasn't sure if later Bathory fit on any of the other lists. I put Hammerheart on my trad. list, but no one else did. Should it go here?

Also, how do people feel about those late 80s/ early 90s black/thrash threshold bands like Root and Celtic Frost? Did they miss the boat, or is this where they belong?

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Agreed. But they're on metal archives. That's Krow's line of thinking, which is totally a fine view to take as its an easily referenced standard. And again, with the influence on metal, if we want to consider that.

Then maybe we should reconsider that being the sole criterion. I think roughly 50% of the album needs to be metal to qualify. I'm not sure if any Rush album qualifies by that standard.

 

[Draehl]

I'd have to nix Graveland. They had an appearance in the Black Metal thread and haven't significantly changed their sound to warrant being on two lists.

Bathory is a much more plausible argument as they went from black metal to more of a viking/folk sound later on. Especially given the fact that the BM thread was heavily skewed towards old school/no frills BM.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I'd have to nix Graveland. They had an appearance in the Black Metal thread and haven't significantly changed their sound to warrant being on two lists.

Bathory is a much more plausible argument as they went from black metal to more of a viking/folk sound later on. Especially given the fact that the BM thread was heavily skewed towards old school/no frills BM.

Other than the growls, there's nothing black metal about Immortal Pride.