Do clone bands have any value?

[General Zod]

A clone band can utilize a tried and true formula while incorporating better songwriting to surpass its inspirations.

They could also improve with superior musicianship/production/lyrics.

Zod

 

[Thanatopsis123]

So by "improving upon it", you mean slicker production, better equipment, and more budget dollars?

Fuck no that isn't what I meant. In fact, I feel a little insulted.

How can a clone improve upon perfection?

Not many originators got near perfection in my opinion. Sometimes originators didn't seem to know how best to use their new ideas despite their sincerity. Sometimes perfection takes a while.

 

[Mormagil]

i thought if a band improved on the original it wasn't a clone band. isn't it a disparaging term?

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

They could also improve with superior musicianship/production/lyrics.

Zod

I agree also. Initially I was addressing J's comment, and I know some people dont care about production/musical proficency very much especially in context with some of the bands referenced in the thread.

 

[Dick Sirloin]

Marillion

 

[cthulufhtagn]

depends on what is meant by "clone", i.e. where does one draw the line between being inspired by a band and being a clone band?

i think regardless, if the songs are quality i don't mind blatant copycatting

 

[J.]

i thought if a band improved on the original it wasn't a clone band. isn't it a disparaging term?

But then the question becomes "What makes a clone better than the original?"

Production? Song writing? Lyrics? Because if you include innovation, originality, vision, sincerity, etc, nothing comes close to the innovator.

 

[Mormagil]

that's not necessarily true. i can't think of any examples but there could always be some band that has an interesting idea yet fails to take it anywhere, then a "clone band" comes along and develops it to its full potential. it happens all the time in other areas like mathematics and stuff; of course if you're talking about bands like bathory or darkthrone you're right.

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

SUBJECTIVE PERSONAL TASTES

 

[Mormagil]

well yeah duh, but there are also objective things like "DUDE FIRST BLACK METAL RIFF RIGHT HERE" or "THESE DUDES TALKED ABOUT WOTAN BEFORE ANYONE ELSE"

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

Yes, but it still dosent matter, and this dosent work:

"band x is better than band y because they did it first, wrote better lyrics, played with more conviction and created better atmosphere"
"But I like band Y better, in my opinion they make better music irregardless of those things"
"your wrong, plus these dudes are more evil"
"stfu"

 

[Krilons Resa]

Yeah, but that's the beauty of opinions. You get to argue about 'em. The winner usually doesn't have the better opinion, just better debating skills.

EVERYTHING is speculation and mere observation but it doesn't mean we can't discuss it....but I digress.

"stfu"

 

[Mormagil]

"more evil" hahahaha

anyway, i don't want to turn this into an argument over whether art is purely a matter of taste (it isn't!!) so i concede

 

[Krilons Resa]

anyway, i don't want to turn this into an argument over whether art is purely a matter of taste (it isn't!!)

Yes it is.

 

[Mormagil]

:Spin:

 

[Krilons Resa]

You were supposed to say "stfu"

 

[JayKeeley]

that's not necessarily true. i can't think of any examples but there could always be some band that has an interesting idea yet fails to take it anywhere, then a "clone band" comes along and develops it to its full potential.

Then it's not a "clone'. In fact, you've almost just defined "progressive".

A clone to me is a copycat. It's a band that hasn't evolved the idea, hasn't morphed it, it's just a carbon copy. They've taken a formula and simply rehashed it but THERE ARE SUBTLE YET INHERENT DIFFERENCES simply because it's delivered by a different group of people.

Take some examples:

Helloween [Blueprint] -> Stratovarius [Clone] :: Blind Guardian [Progressive]

Bathory [Blueprint] -> Morrigan [Clone] :: Enslaved [Progressive]

Slayer [Blueprint] -> Lamb of God [Clone] :: Morbid Angel [Progressive]

The question is, do Stratovarius, Morrigan, or Lamb of God offer anything of value? I guess the answer is dependent on whether you like the "blueprint" in the first place.

Likewise, can you like Strat but not Helloween? Or Morrigan and not Bathory? Once, NAD told me he knew people that liked St Vitus and The Obsessed but not Black Sabbath.



Disclaimer: Results may vary.

 

[JayKeeley]

[pre-emptive strike]

*Yes I realize Lamb of God might not be a Slayer clone per se but I couldn't think of anyone else.

 

[Mormagil]

yeah that's what i was getting at. on the last page everyone was saying "i only like clones if they improve on the original" which made no sense

 

[jimbobhickville]

Some clones are good, most are bad. Very few outdo the original, for example:

Symphony X is better than Yngwie Malmsteen
Manitou is better than Fates Warning
Anekdoten is better than King Crimson (I doubt many will agree, but I like 'em better)
Pantera is better than Exhorder

I can't think of any others at the moment, though.