Do you ever feel tired of record morons?

[::XeS::]

I feel like this for 2-3 months actually...I mean, if I think of this work I like it very much, I like to study new way of getting the sound out of an amp etc...tuning to perfection drums...but when I start recording I feel immediately bad and I'm looking forward to finishing the recording because I can't carry anymore hours of re-re-re-re-recording shitty riffs that I can play perfectly listening them a couple of time on-the-fly...it's really frustrating because you understand that you care about the album much more than the guys of the band...
You have to record useless musicians and loose your mind listening hundreds of times the same riff because they didn't study/didn't learn anything before enter the studio, after that you have to rewrite/recreate drums, guitars, bass takes because the original ones suck very much...after that hundreds of changes because they are stupid idiots that don't know how music and mixes work...You have to work 20 times more than the band itself...and many times you also "ask too much"......
I think this job is really awesome when you deal with professional musicians but it happens only 1-2 times in a whole year (if it's a good year)...and let me say it's a really pathetic situation.
Do you ever feel like this? How do you deal when you start being tired about a similar situation?

 

[Ermz]

The only way to deal is by aiming to get out of that sort of grind. The way past those situations is to put yourself in a position where only quality or motivated artists want to work with you. You can generally get a feel for where a band is straight away - it's even given away by the way many of them write emails. If it consists of one or two abrupt sentences, fronted by 'how much do u charge?', followed by an array of grammatical or spelling errors, chances are you're going to have some problems working with these people.

I can deal with guys who aren't ready to record, so long as they have the attitude and the desire to learn and improve over time. For me a prime requisite of working with an artist is to make sure they are in the right place, mentally - whether our respective motivations can meet and foster quality throughout our partnership.

If you do typical recording demo walk-in day jobs, that's a fast track way to start hating your job. It goes without saying that in 95% of those situations you'll be dealing with trash in-trash out. The only way past it is to alter your business model in order to cultivate more motivated clientele in the long term.

 

[AEL89]

It is hard but you have to motivate yourself and stop being cynical. I've worked with some shitty musicians but I've never let that stop me making the final product as good as it can be. I literally force myself to give every ounce of energy I can towards a recording. Sometimes you have to be upbeat and positive about the worst scenario - I've gotten some good performances from poor musicians this way. Its all part of being a music producer.

I find myself working with better musicians having done a lot of "grinding" and building a reputation anyway now. There's still the odd dude who can't play his instrument but that's just the way it goes sometimes.

 

[AEL89]

The only way to deal is by aiming to get out of that sort of grind. The way past those situations is to put yourself in a position where only quality or motivated artists want to work with you. You can generally get a feel for where a band is straight away - it's even given away by the way many of them write emails. If it consists of one or two abrupt sentences, fronted by 'how much do u charge?', followed by an array of grammatical or spelling errors, chances are you're going to have some problems working with these people.

I can deal with guys who aren't ready to record, so long as they have the attitude and the desire to learn and improve over time. For me a prime requisite of working with an artist is to make sure they are in the right place, mentally - whether our respective motivations can meet and foster quality throughout our partnership.

If you do typical recording demo walk-in day jobs, that's a fast track way to start hating your job. It goes without saying that in 95% of those situations you'll be dealing with trash in-trash out. The only way past it is to alter your business model in order to cultivate more motivated clientele in the long term.

Great post. Your attitude is commendable Ermin, much respect.

The trouble with producing music is if you lose concentration for even a few minutes - when you get your focus back, any mistakes you've made will stick out like a sore thumb. You really have to be on top of every situation for the entire duration of a project. If you have 1% of resentment towards your work - you won't reach your potential. Its very hard.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

You can generally get a feel for where a band is straight away - it's even given away by the way many of them write emails. If it consists of one or two abrupt sentences, fronted by 'how much do u charge?', followed by an array of grammatical or spelling errors, chances are you're going to have some problems working with these people.

This is something I've been wondering about for a long time now. I can usually tell with 95% accuracy (no, I haven't actually done an Excel spreadsheet about the subject) where I stand with the potential client from the very first email I get. Whenever I get a strong gut feeling that they're gonna try to fuck me over or cause other sorts of trouble, I'm usually spot on, and it's based completely on the way they presented themselves even if the details of the deal seem absolutely fine. Works the other way around, too. I can often tell the project will be awesome just by the way the client approaches me.

These things shouldn't correlate at all, but somehow they do. Then again, if a person can't be bothered to spend enough time to write a nice email, he probably can't be arsed to take his music seriously, either.

Needless to say, I never, ever alter my behavior based on gut feeling. Couldn't afford being wrong

 

[::XeS::]

Thanks for the answers!
As you said I'm thinking to do a "selection" of the clients I'll work with..That's the first thing I'll do in the future.
The problem with those "shitty musicians/bands" is that despite you work night and day to give them a decent product...most of the time you get nothing in change from them (apart the money)...I mean, you accept to work with someone that doesn't care a shit about his music etc, thinking to do a good mix anyway so it can promote your work, your style,etc.. but it doesn't, because most of the times it will never come out, or the bands will split before the release.....very often I think "Why you're spending your money with me, if you don't care about your music?"... it's so weird...

 

[::XeS::]

Today's news: the band I did this summer (the natural drums sound I posted on the forum last week) decides unexpectedly to mix elsewhere.....and they don't know where yet. -_-
This is another reason because I'm sick of this job....here no one cares about the studio they will go....the important thing is the price and the distance from home. They don't decide to go in a particular studio because of the sound...and I don't wanna be chosen for these reasons but because a band likes my sound.
This is not the case because they care very much about this album.....but if you decide to go elsewhere I would like to know you've already decided WHERE you wanna go.
I did a premix with my tastes (they didn't like it) and I should have met with them wendsday to choose the right sound they want....but today they said me this thing. It's not a problem because it's their music... but I don't like you wanna go elsewhere without know where you wanna go...

 

[lolzgreg]

Today's news: the band I did this summer (the natural drums sound I posted on the forum last week) decides unexpectedly to mix elsewhere.....and they don't know where yet. -_-
This is another reason because I'm sick of this job....here no one cares about the studio they will go....the important thing is the price and the distance from home

This is not a universal truth. It may be true in many cases, but those aren't the clients you want to work with. Everyone has their trials and tribulations as a recording engineer. At a point, if you're persistent and motivated, you will surpass this point in your career and gain rapport in your field. When the time comes, you will be working with better acts, and enjoying it more. You just have draw the best from every artist you work with, and take some of the rougher situations into your own hands, if you catch my drift

 

[Ermz]

The trouble with producing music is if you lose concentration for even a few minutes - when you get your focus back, any mistakes you've made will stick out like a sore thumb. You really have to be on top of every situation for the entire duration of a project. If you have 1% of resentment towards your work - you won't reach your potential. Its very hard.

It's mentally draining, no doubt. Always having to keep that level of quality in mind, and pushing yourself not to settle for 'good enough'. I have to admit at times I do falter and attribute it to 'its more raw and natural d00d', which you can actually get away with to a degree. There's a point of diminishing returns, where you're pushing harder only to satisfy your own OCD, and no other sane person will ever care about the difference you've made. That's always a line that has to be straddled too.

 

[Max Morton]

Ah, the situation, described by XeS happened (and still happens) in my practice, too. That's why I ALWAYS visit the band's rehearsal and spend two hours with them before I agree to collaborate. We talk, I listen their music, examine the band, their rehearsal place, the way they play, the way they treat their instruments, etc.
I usually visit them a month before we start working (if it is possible). Then I ask each member about his strings choice, favourite tones, favourite amps, favourite cymbals, drum sticks, etc etc etc. So, I build my own picture and see if it correlates with ME. If we choose to collaborate, I usually help them preparing their instruments for recording, order enough strings for them, and so on.

And it saved my arse from lots of pain several times. In fact, twice this year I agreed to work before listening the band - and both time I had to regret.

I also prefer to charge per song, not per hour, and it works for me, because I always warn the band: you must be prepared, we won't fight through hundreds of takes - it's not fair and it's a wrong approach. So they work hard or they go home and practice. If there is a certain fragment that they can't play no matter how hard they try, I'm usually able to convince them to let me play it (guitars, basses, and several times - even drums parts!) - in most cases they react positively.

As it was said in this topic, tracking a band (and then editing) is the most exhausting process. So, I sincerely wish the best of luck to the topicstarter (and everyone else, who knows how does it feel to hear a hundred of fucked-up takes that you can play with ease).

 

[::XeS::]

I usually work like this...but it depends on your situation. I mean, if you are a well known producer you can select your clients but when you're trying to do this for a living, often you accept to record shitty bands to get some cash. You can act this way also if you do it as a second job or as an hobby. But when you are in need of money you don't have all these alternatives.
You become also very unmotivated and you decide that you'll never buy new pieces of gear anymore because it's a waste of money...if you work with guys that can't play you'll have absolutely no benefits with an API or an SSL desk...

 

[Toxic_Lord]

I usually work like this...but it depends on your situation. I mean, if you are a well known producer you can select your clients but when you're trying to do this for a living, often you accept to record shitty bands to get some cash. You can act this way also if you do it as a second job or as an hobby. But when you are in need of money you don't have all these alternatives.
You become also very unmotivated and you decide that you'll never buy new pieces of gear anymore because it's a waste of money...if you work with guys that can't play you'll have absolutely no benefits with an API or an SSL desk...

Absolutely true!!!

 

[Seizure.]

Recording/writing a record with/for liv kristine atm, so not alot to complain about from my perspective

 

[kaomao]

Recording/writing a record with/for liv kristine atm, so not alot to complain about from my perspective

you lucky bastard eheheh

 

[kaomao]

keep on fighting xes!
It's worth it
I can't do this for a living I don't have many clients, maybe my recordings suck, maybe I'm not that good catching new clients.
But I can say I'd do this any day if it can gets me money!
I have to develop business applications to make a living and I definitely hate it, I'm always frustrated.l
I have to find a way to produce more bands lol

 

[tempe]

I just don't track anymore! I found a friend who apparently enjoys yelling at people.

 

[::XeS::]

Yeah mixing is much more fun....at least when you don't deal with stupid musicians that want only their instrument/voice loud as hell.
Anyway I love to set microphones, tuning drums etc... I only hate to deal with people that doesn't know how to play and that doesn't understand how the recording process works these days.
Here in Italy the mentality is still in the 80s...when nobody knew how a studio works. Nowadays there is a studio report everyday...everybody can know how musicians record in a studio, the importance of a preproduction. And you still see guys that after lot of live gigs don't know the riffs....people that come in the studio to record noticing they have always played wrong notes...FOR MONTHS! C'mon...is this the level of musicianship we wanna pass on?
What I don't undertand is.......why the fuck you're spending money, if you don't care about your music? Why you spend some grand if you don't know how to play a shitty riff YOU HAVE CREATED?!?!?

 

[AaronDylan]

Hey Xes!! I felt so good reading this! that someone felt the same way i do at the moment!

I´m recording a lot of bands in the moment and i have a few lined up where im not sure if i will accept or not!

2 more tipps that might save you from misery:

If you don´t have the possibility to visit a band practice or never have seen the band live

ask them to record all the songs they want to record with you as sort of cheap pre-production theirselfs!

Then allready half of them won´t do it and it´s sorted out a bit. if they will make a nice one you know it will be worth it a bit more because they already put some effort in it!
It´s also a good way to put the band in a situation where they have to prove themselfs first before they can record with you!

I also wrote a 4 pages long recording preperation sheet i send one month before the recording date.

It has listed everything i have to know and they have to do before they enter the studio! this sheet saved me so many times.

since then nobody entered my studio without new strings drumheads and tempo maps! I also mentioned that after an amount of takes they fuck up i will have my brother play their parts.

If they ask to many stupid questions about my prep sheet then i will know that their not ready yet!

If you want more good clients! why don´t you search for bands in your area that you like and just ask them.

i had real good results doing that. even if they first said that they weren´t interested they came a half year later cause they heard something good i did!

so don´t leet noobs put you down bro!

 

[::XeS::]

It's something I already do...I ask always tempo maps and preproduction if they have one...but very often there is 1 band member well prepared that knows his shit, and 4 idiots.
And there is also some kind of "band crisis" in my area.....some years ago there was a boom with lot of bands but nowadays there are only few bands...and they are all shitty bands.

 

[Soundlurker]

I know most of really need the money, even if the musicians aren't even close to being prepared but sometimes you really have to say no. Sometimes it's the whole band but usually it's just one guy, in which case you have to point out what he's doing wrong and how he can learn to do it right, then tell him to go home and practice until he's got it right. If the musician can record himself playing to the song or a metronome it helps tremendously! You can tell them to send you an mp3 of their practice recordings, even if the sound is crappy you can really tell if they are ready.