Does anyone feel stupid writing lyrics?
- Thread starter JonWormwood
- Start date
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Executioner213
Ultimate Meatbag
I think it's something you just get better at like playing/recording/mixing etc.
gorath23
Member
- Feb 6, 2008
- 652
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When I started off recording I decided I wanted all my songs to run along a similar 'concept' and that has made it a lot easier to come up with lyrics as you have a little mini-story going on. So I'm not just trying to think of random lines. I'm an English student so a load of the 18/19th century Gothic novels and poetry have really helped too. Saying that my lyrics probably still suck, I wouldn't know as I don't have to sing them...
smy1
Member
I have been writing lyrics to songs for about 17 years now and people generally say I am quite good at it. Most of the time I thought lyrics did not matter to people, but even though MOST lyrics don't matter to people, GOOD lyrics will make a huge difference. Good lyrics are ALWAYS lyrics that the listener can relate to in an emotional way. That's why cheesy songs like "Hey there, Delilah" by the Plain White T's work so well (for the record: I like the song and think it is well done). When I look at my new record, I notice that I have still employed clever wordplays and cynicism, but a lot of the tracks have a lot more emotional lyrics than they used to. And people love that!
My favorite example is from a concert I played in the UK. I have a song called "Vanish" (a poppy uptempo ballad) and it's a crowd favorite. Most of my gigs are powerful and dancy and I am aggressive and cheerful at the same time, but this is usually the "breather". To cut a long story short: I announced the track spontaneously with "This next song is gonna be a bit slower ... and guys, if you have a girl with you, hold her close and hope that this song doesn't happen to you!". To this day it still gives me goosebumps seeing 1500 eyes go *really* big and the crowd hushing and every dude I could see hugging his girl. I have also never before received so many messages on myspace regarding a concert/song.
Although it may be sappy and although I am not saying that one should be writing boy/girl songs all the time, the power of concrete, emotionally appealing songs, addressing emotions from love to anger to fear to pressure to whatever, is SO much bigger than any "corpsefucker"-deathmetal or "silver linings in the sky of hope"-wannabe-philosophical lyrics. The problem is: they are much harder to write, which is why most lyric writers resort to the easier way out (I sure was guilty of that for a long time).
Obviously it helps to actually be an emotional person, but if you want to get really good at writing lyrics, read some books about the topic. Great ones that come to mind are:
[ame]http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/1582970645[/ame]
[ame]http://www.amazon.de/Tunesmith-Inside-Songwriting-Jimmy-Webb/dp/0786884886/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books-intl-de&qid=1209550743&sr=1-3[/ame]
[ame]http://www.amazon.de/Steps-Songwriting-Success-Comprehensive-Marketing/dp/0823084124/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books-intl-de&qid=1209550771&sr=1-2[/ame]
The last two dealing with songwriting as a whole, too ...
My favorite example is from a concert I played in the UK. I have a song called "Vanish" (a poppy uptempo ballad) and it's a crowd favorite. Most of my gigs are powerful and dancy and I am aggressive and cheerful at the same time, but this is usually the "breather". To cut a long story short: I announced the track spontaneously with "This next song is gonna be a bit slower ... and guys, if you have a girl with you, hold her close and hope that this song doesn't happen to you!". To this day it still gives me goosebumps seeing 1500 eyes go *really* big and the crowd hushing and every dude I could see hugging his girl. I have also never before received so many messages on myspace regarding a concert/song.
Although it may be sappy and although I am not saying that one should be writing boy/girl songs all the time, the power of concrete, emotionally appealing songs, addressing emotions from love to anger to fear to pressure to whatever, is SO much bigger than any "corpsefucker"-deathmetal or "silver linings in the sky of hope"-wannabe-philosophical lyrics. The problem is: they are much harder to write, which is why most lyric writers resort to the easier way out (I sure was guilty of that for a long time).
Obviously it helps to actually be an emotional person, but if you want to get really good at writing lyrics, read some books about the topic. Great ones that come to mind are:
[ame]http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/1582970645[/ame]
[ame]http://www.amazon.de/Tunesmith-Inside-Songwriting-Jimmy-Webb/dp/0786884886/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books-intl-de&qid=1209550743&sr=1-3[/ame]
[ame]http://www.amazon.de/Steps-Songwriting-Success-Comprehensive-Marketing/dp/0823084124/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books-intl-de&qid=1209550771&sr=1-2[/ame]
The last two dealing with songwriting as a whole, too ...
Keregioz
Kimon Zeliotis
Sadly 11 out of 10 metal bands today use brutal vocals... so even if the lyrics are good (which usually it's not the case) no one can hear them.
More to the topic... I consider myself mainly a composer... lyrics are not my thing. Writing lyrics feels like a chore to me, I write them out of necessity but I think I do a decent job. I just try to avoid cheesy/cliche words or expressions. I also think people should avoid cutting words from the lyrics to fit better to the songs time measure without making sure it still makes sense...
More to the topic... I consider myself mainly a composer... lyrics are not my thing. Writing lyrics feels like a chore to me, I write them out of necessity but I think I do a decent job. I just try to avoid cheesy/cliche words or expressions. I also think people should avoid cutting words from the lyrics to fit better to the songs time measure without making sure it still makes sense...
Sinister Mephisto
1337
- Sep 20, 2005
- 2,900
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two words, Novembers Doom. Brutal vocals, intelligible, and emotional lyrics.
I certainly used to feel stupid writing lyrics, but with practice it gets better.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Are you serious? I can't listen to them almost BECAUSE of the lyrics. It pisses me off to no end that the guy refuses to rhyme in any parts of the song - it has no flow, IMO.
SocialNumb
Damn Christians!
Besides that, I get the feeling a viking is singing to me.
Ha! In fact he should hold a big axe while singing. IMO of course. 
I think when you try to ryme everything it sound very cheesy. Aaron from My dying Bride, man that dude can write some dark,beautiful lyrics. I try to write in that kind of style.
smy1
Member
It's interesting how opinions differ. After your post I checked out their lyrics on their 2006 release and to me they were exactly the cliché and pretentious stuff that is totally cheap and means nothing. The following words should totally be on a "use only if threatened with violence"-list:
shadow
darkness
tomb
rose
breath
skin
within
arms
dust
wings
the list is quite long and the lyrics I found at:
http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/mydyingbride/alineofdeathlesskings.html#4
are totally some of the most cliché rhymes I have heard in a long time!
I can seriously write an album of stuff like this in 3 hours without sweating.
mts1979
Member
- May 3, 2006
- 207
- 0
- 16
One word for you: Motorhead. Most underrated lyrics ever. Lemmy's really good with the whole clever wordplay thing, and when he's not singing about getting laid, his stuff is pretty intelligent and thoughtful. And the stuff that is about getting laid is pretty amusing.
I think that everyone writing their own lyrics will feel a bit stupid/self-conscious about them at first, but like others said, you get better and get over it.
I think that everyone writing their own lyrics will feel a bit stupid/self-conscious about them at first, but like others said, you get better and get over it.
Sinister Mephisto
1337
- Sep 20, 2005
- 2,900
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haha. Yes I'm serious. I never said he rhymed, I said you could understand what he was singing, and that his lyrics were emotional.
MetalWorks
Member
I have a hard time writing lyrics when I have to make something up.
I do better when I am writing about personal experiences.
And Its awkward to write lyrics about Zombies rising from the grave and eating your brains and then another song about hatred and retribution.
Maybe I could handle doing a theme album as stated above, but I feel silly sometimes making things up.
I really have trouble right now with lyrics because I dont have much in personal life to bitch about.
If I did I would write a song that sounds like this:
Why the fuck don't I sound like Andy Sneap
That mother fucker mixes albums in his sleep
Recordings hell and Im crying towards the heavens
They say its easy just use SM57s
I point that fucker to the outside of the cone
If I did stem cell research poop would be my clone
I try to reamp but I capture tons of hiss
I've heard better tone when Andy takes a piss
I'll keep recording as Im building up with rage
Maybe one day I'll get reamped at Backstage
I do better when I am writing about personal experiences.
And Its awkward to write lyrics about Zombies rising from the grave and eating your brains and then another song about hatred and retribution.
Maybe I could handle doing a theme album as stated above, but I feel silly sometimes making things up.
I really have trouble right now with lyrics because I dont have much in personal life to bitch about.
If I did I would write a song that sounds like this:
Why the fuck don't I sound like Andy Sneap
That mother fucker mixes albums in his sleep
Recordings hell and Im crying towards the heavens
They say its easy just use SM57s
I point that fucker to the outside of the cone
If I did stem cell research poop would be my clone
I try to reamp but I capture tons of hiss
I've heard better tone when Andy takes a piss
I'll keep recording as Im building up with rage
Maybe one day I'll get reamped at Backstage
Executioner213
Ultimate Meatbag
egan.
daylightdies.com
lyrics are so subjective that it's really difficult to define a single 'good.' For example I have stumbled into arguments about the quality of Steven Wilson's lyrics more than once. Some say 'intelligent," some say "embarrassing" -- it really depends on the listener. I think the most important thing is to set a goal and then really work and revise and revise and revise until you are there. If you want some bloodbath type lyrics go for it-- if you want to be Bob Dylan-esque then work towards that end. The point is to dig in and really put some time and effort into it. At the end of the day someone is going to hate it. Who cares? Most of us aren't playing music w/ a wide target audience to begin with. I think the main problem w/ lyrics is there is often this "afterthought" mentality about them that will never result in anything but mediocrity. Lyrics require lots of work and effort just like every other part of the process. Ultimately if you are really meticulous about the craft then at the end the words will 'speak' to someone.
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
hehe, thanks for your opinion but I beg to differ.
I think that if the lyrics reflect the context in which they are in, such words are allowed. In fact, any word should be allowed as long as it flows and suits and supports the feeling they are expressed with.
Just because every second band uses "darkness" doesn't make it a weaker word. It's more the priority which counts. In others words, it CAN be cliché but it doesn't have to be. Looking for alternate wordings the whole just to avoid common ones isn't really a good idea.
Some songs are written with a very simple choice of words yet are strong as fuck.
Chryst Krispies
Vanilla Gorilla
smy1
Member
I actually agree with you: any word can sound good in a good context. Most of the time the context is very much the same in metal/goth/rock, though. I guess a mental list of phrases like "my skin crawls" or "drowning in despair" helps better in not sounding totally cliché.
Cliché is necessary to some extent, especially in pop music where a main goal is to get the listener to sing and "learn" the lyrics by the 2nd chorus ... in metal, I feel (purely subjective) that clichés should be avoided as much as possible.
This is very cool ... sounds very 80s rap/hiphop though
MetalWorks
Member
This is very cool ... sounds very 80s rap/hiphop though
I felt like Agnostic Front when it spilled out of me.
