it's easy to tell for the simple facts that
a) very few modern singers can actually hit pitch-perfect notes the way they are on records, especially not after recording vocals for 8-12 hours a day.
highly doubt mike can go into the studio, do 6 hours of growling, and then hit pitch-perfect notes on a singing part. not to mention that mike is off-key live sometimes too, especially when singing parts that are out of his range (but yet were pulled off on a record...surprise surprise.)
b) using auto-tune to perfectly align it to the grid (ie 100% correction in melodyne etc or the line tool in antares) makes it sound unnatural and "synthlike".
this is especially apparent when producers go overboard and auto-tune every syllable in a given line. it's also apparent when the singer is using vibrato and it's 100% perfectly in tune. this will be a big give-away, since most singers will trail off-pitch. if the notes have been tuned, they start sounding "synthy" or unnatural. it'd be the equivalent to tuning a dive-bomb on a guitar, in which it will sound just...dumb. not to mention that the human voice box changes pitch on certain pronunciations and using autotune on that once again, makes it sound fixed and unhuman.
c) big harmony parts will have vocal imperfections adding up quick if it wasn't tuned
this is why the masters apprentices part was tuned, because it was a multi-part harmony with two different vocalists and since sw can't sing for his life half of the time, obviously it's going to be auto-tuned.
clearly I'm quite uninformed. care to show me where I'm wrong, with my "red herrings" and "opinions"?
oh and btw 99% of metal producers (bogren included) use autotune. go figure? really doubt roadrunner would pay a producer like bogren to do a record that sounds like shit because they couldn't get good vocal clean vocal takes and he didn't fix any.
The red herring was how you completely avoided the topic by saying it is "obvious".
I am well aware how obvious auto tune is, but I still do not think you have any idea what the program does.
You are pulling statistics, and incorrect data out of your ass.
Show me one sound sample where auto tune is obvious in an Opeth recording.
a) Modern Singers? So we are automatically in an age of horrible singers now? Care to back your argument up with a source that agrees with your view?
Mikael would
not do 6 hours of growling
then do clean vocals. If you knew
anything on how a record is a made (which I am now completely confident that you
do not) you would know that he would do the growls either last, with the clean sections first, or vice versa, besides, he does this perfect live, or have you not heard, or seen, Opeth in concert? Ever considered Mikael is not your average modern metal vocalist? Considered that he might have be gifted with a naturally fine voice? No you didn't, did you?
b) Aligning anything to a grid does not make it unnatureal or "synth like", all quantization does it
move regions to the grid, the only abuse this would hold is if the engineer quantized, say a 4/4 to 7/8. This would be obvious manipulation, but if beat detective is used, this does not affect the waveform, whereas Quantization does. Moving to the grid, is just moving something in time (as in, on the beat). Do I really need to explain this further?
You have come into this with a point of view that these people cannot sing. I am not going to disagree, but I am not agreeing either. As I need to tune vocals my self, you are arguing from a point that your claim is Mikael
can not sing and
needs his vocals tuned.
Shitty tuned vocals DO sound unnatural, show me one clip where an Opeth vibrato sounds unnatural.
c) Big harmonies? What is your definition of "big harmonies"? Mine is over 32 tracks. Under 32 and it just does not cut it, and you do
not have to tune vocals. Do you REALLY think that producers and engineers are
that lazy they only do one or two takes and decide the best? I have spent an entire week recording a single vocalist before.
The bigger the harmonies the
less noticeable the tuning differences, but obvious imperfections can stick out, this is true, slight variances will not.
Steve Wilson hinted those harmonies were tuned, and there is absolutely no basis to think they were. I am not disagreeing that they were tuned, but your entire argument is centered around this possibility that they were tuned
therefore all this vocals are tuned.
And I really don't care either. Either way, it sounds fantastic. But next time you want to argue the analytical aesthetics of sound recording, don't pick a fight with an actual engineer.