Does reamping suck tone?

intereting points. when i first found out about reamping and di tracks i got into the whole crazy of recording everythign di with like a line 6 then reamping through real amps. i found that it was hit and miss depending on the player because as said certain players will get impacted by using a line 6 pod to record then when you send it through an amp it sounds like shit. i find that since digital sims sound like they have more gain they play with a weaker feel especially for heavy stuff. also noise is a factor too, there is less noise "intangible" nosie as you get from tubes and amp distortion so it sounds clean on a pod then through an amp there are little like hand noises and random bad decays of palm mutes.

after realizing this i quickly just changed to lets record you with your gear and try to get a good tone and if anything i know i got the best perf. out of you and can reamp through my own collection of amps. so far it has payed off more as i find that reamping is working out better, and dare i say it, a couple of things i haven't reamped because we succeeded at a good sound at source. i'll try to dig up some samples of old line 6 vs reamped examples so you can see.
 
I agree that the dynamic feel of a guitarist's playing will be altered when tracking through an amp sim...if the amp sim isn't set to respond the way the player is used to. If you plan on reamping through a real amp later, but you don't take the time to tweak an amp sim with the guitar player, then you're immediately going to be headed for trouble. Firing up the POD and just saying "Here, track through this BRVTAL metal patch I love...ready, set, GO!" does not sound like a professional approach at all. And honestly, I think a guitar player would be kind of stupid if he was sitting down to record a song, and didn't speak up if the amp sim tone didn't feel normal to play though. If we're talking about capturing the best performances of everyone in the band, then to me it's of the utmost importance to make sure that the guitarist feels comfortable with the tone he's hearing. Yeah, there are inherent differences between the sound/feel of an amp and the sound/feel of an amp sim, but I don't think that the difference is irreconcilable to the point that guitar players cannot perform comfortably through an amp sim and record DI tracks that translate well to a real amp. As a guitar player myself, I would never want to record guitars and feel like I was adjusting my playing to accommodate a peculiar amp tone! The amp sim should be set to accommodate the guitarist, not the other way around! I can tell when I'm playing comfortably and playing the way I am used to, as any solid guitarist should, and I have never found it impossible to dial in an amp sim to work for me.

Once you've got that nailed, then the only possible loss of quality during reamping is the fidelity of the DI tracks themselves...and if you have a decent converter, a good DI box, and a clean sounding preamp, and a good reamp box, then I don't think there should be any issues whatsoever!
 
Well Aaron, I guess the issue you're raising is other guitarists whom you're tracking, rather than just recording yourself, but I guess you made clear that it's not necessarily a given that a person will play differently through an ampsim if it's tweaked how they like it, which I agree with, and I guess I try to tweak everything I play through how I like it, thus why I really have never noticed a difference in how I play.
 
while i agree with you aaron, that everyone needs to be "comfortable" as they record, i've read dozens of posts where producers on here force the guitarist to use a diff amp than what he is accustomed to, or diff settings than he's used to because the settings for playing live vs recording need to be different. how would i set the amp sim correctly if i dont know what the producer will be using later for reamping? ie - if a marshall and mesa respond differently, how do i choose what to set the amp sim at if i dont know what amp will be used later?
 
jrt12 said:
while i agree with you aaron, that everyone needs to be "comfortable" as they record, i've read dozens of posts where producers on here force the guitarist to use a diff amp than what he is accustomed to, or diff settings than he's used to because the settings for playing live vs recording need to be different. how would i set the amp sim correctly if i dont know what the producer will be using later for reamping? ie - if a marshall and mesa respond differently, how do i choose what to set the amp sim at if i dont know what amp will be used later?
Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying... My post was making the assumption that you're working with a guitarist (yourself or otherwise) who has a good grasp on what a good tone actually is, and plays in that manor. If you're recording a guitar player who plays very softly because his tone sucks and is used to an absurd amount of gain, then it's going to be a struggle no matter how you approach it. I know I'm kind of going back on my statement about guitarists should always be comfortable, but I guess if you're recording a guy who is never going to sound good in a mix unless the amp is set better, then it's probably best to try to get him to adjust a bit. If the guitarist is worth anything at all, then it shouldn't be too terribly difficult for him to get comfortable playing a bit harder (or as Andy has mentioned has been commonplace in his career- to play closer to the bridge on palm mutes) and then he'll be a better guitar player because of it.
 
Ok, relief. I just borrowed a friend's 6505 and did some reamps direct in. My DIs are fine :)

I really have to work out a space to do reamping myself. It's hard to get the neighbours agreeable on such a thing.
 
Nah it's the reamps I'm getting back from people. I'm very particular about guitar tones and it seems others naturally have different perceptions of what sounds good coming out of an amp. So once again the ideal solution is to have a space to reamp crap myself. This last project I had to do with a 6505 direct into impulses... very far from ideal, but it provided the best tone I could get for the circumstances.

I'm just elated that it isn't my gear causing the issues. Phew.
 
Ermz said:
Nah it's the reamps I'm getting back from people. I'm very particular about guitar tones and it seems others naturally have different perceptions of what sounds good coming out of an amp.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, stop the presses! :loco: :D
 
Also think much comes from the player and changing the playing style a bit depending on amp and sound that you want.

Anyone tried to record raw, without distorsion, amp/ampsim? Pretty interesting I might say. You can spot a great deal of faults and misstakes. Also good when quadtracking.

Since many of you recognize the problem with re-amp, how do you go about to get a good raw tone - good for reamp?
 
Dawn Patrol said:
Anyone tried to record raw, without distorsion, amp/ampsim? Pretty interesting I might say. You can spot a great deal of faults and misstakes. Also good when quadtracking.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but IMO you can spot a lot more faults when there's distortion, cuz little things that wouldn't be noticeable in the DI are amplified due to the massive compression of distortion (especially ringing strings, string sliding noises, etc.) And if mistakes are noticeable in the DI but not in the distortion, well, who cares? :D
 
kaomao said:
To me erm your DI's are fine
http://www.blacksandband.com/Stuff/Ermz_ScarSymmetry.mp3
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Cool, thanks man. Those were the ones done entirely with my own gear, including the ol C7. The reason it's all sloppy is because they're whole takes, first takes.

I've played around a bit and the DIs seem to be fine. A lot more hangs on the player and the instrument used at this stage. The Millennia and RME definitely do their job. It's just a matter of getting the right tone when reamping. I have to think about it for some time and work out a way to do reamps here without having to resort to impulses. I was hoping Nebula would be on the level by now TBH, so that threw a bit of a wrench into the works.
 
My problem with reamping is that i want to be able to go from a almost clean sound, to a really distorted sound just by hitting the strings softer or harder.. this means that when im recording something im adjusting my picking strength to the current amp & settings, so when i switch the amp, it doesnt sound anything like before. ;X
 
Metaltastic said:
Yeah, but IMO you can spot a lot more faults when there's distortion, cuz little things that wouldn't be noticeable in the DI are amplified due to the massive compression of distortion (especially ringing strings, string sliding noises, etc.) And if mistakes are noticeable in the DI but not in the distortion, well, who cares? :D
Click to expand...

Exactly.

The computer I have at home (the one I'm using right now) is not set up for audio stuff at all, so when I wanna throw some songs together from some loose ideas, I just record with a direct monitoring which means I get to listen to the clean signal only since this computer's sound card sucks %!"#%&. Most of the time I was like "hey, I'm playing really well!" and then when I play it back through an amp sim I notice ringing strings and what not. Really bad idea :(

I love it when anti-metal guys claim that everything is easy to play with distortion on. HOW ON EARTH DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? Every sound you generate is amplified to fucking hell and back so if anything, it's only harder!
 
Yeah the 'distortion hides your mistakes' stigma is one of the biggest pieces of misinformation going around in guitarist circles I think. I tend to like tracking with more gain in some instances to hear MORE of the residual string noise and scraping amplified, forcing the players to play tighter. The drawback there is that they may not pick as hard as they should because the gain comes easily. It's just a technique thing... I think a great guitarist can play well through just about anything.
 
Ermz said:
Cool, thanks man. Those were the ones done entirely with my own gear, including the ol C7. The reason it's all sloppy is because they're whole takes, first takes.

I've played around a bit and the DIs seem to be fine. A lot more hangs on the player and the instrument used at this stage. The Millennia and RME definitely do their job. It's just a matter of getting the right tone when reamping. I have to think about it for some time and work out a way to do reamps here without having to resort to impulses. I was hoping Nebula would be on the level by now TBH, so that threw a bit of a wrench into the works.
Click to expand...

Yeah nothing wrong with those DI's .
I tell ya, among the 3 DI's inside the rar, the red eye sounded warmer than the other ones.
I love my redeye ;)
Anyway may I ask you what have been used (guitars) for the other song, the one with vocals.
It seems it is just brighter like an 81 ;)
 
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