Don't Mourn The Dead In Blacksburg

[speed]

So everyone disagrees with him? At least he made you think. I know he made me think. People blow this out of proportion, and take it seriously, when they should just laugh or ignore it.

 

[Έρεβος]

I got it from a article that had 5 examples (Canada, England, Australia, Saudi Arabia and South Korea). All but the Australians made rather harsh criticisms of American society, and the S Koreans of course aplogized and reiterated the boy was one rotten apple.

Should find one on a somewhat neutral issue/country. That would be more interesting, as there would be less universal bias (as there is towards America ... rightfully).

 

[cryosteel]

Because of the fact I blame the lack of a "hero" on the effects of diverstity
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c4ac4a74-570f-11db-9110-0000779e2340.html
it occured to me earlier today that this makes it very unlikely that any heroes were on Flight 93, so I am skeptical in the extreme that any hyjackers were challenged on that flight.
Mind you, I do think it likely I would have tackled the gunman - but I think you have to be mentally prepared for these things. Most people flee from the harsh facts of reality and pretend nothing bad will ever happen.

You may have a point about diversity. When people feel socially isolated with no historic bond between them, they are not only more readily exploited economically, but act as panicked lone sheep during crisis rather than as a dependable unit underscored by a legacy of (ethnic) trust.

 

[ThrashKing]

i don't think you should blame the students for not trying to tackle the shooter because most people are selfish and act in self-preservation. I doubt there are very many people in the world that would have tried to be heros in that situation, especially when the shooter had not 1, but 2 semi-automatic pistols. Whoever tried to be a hero would undoubtedly be the first one to go down.

 

[Scourge of God]

The point still stands: You have NEVER been in this situation; therefore, don't presume to know what you would do and do not criticize people based on your own flimsy assumptions.

This is a bullshit argument. One could just as easily say that you can't condemn the shooter because you don't know what you would have done in his circumstances. Or, hell, you might as well say no one can criticize Isaiah Thomas if they haven't been GM of the Knicks. I know myself. I know how I react under stress. I know I wouldn't have just waited to die like a coward.

Besides, the whole idea is flawed. Should we not mourn those who made mistakes?

Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone is cravenly complicit in their own demise. I see no reason to extend sympathy to people who made no meaningful effort to live.

 

[Έρεβος]

So everyone disagrees with him?

No, just don't quite fully agree. Well, I agree they shouldn't be mourned, but not for exactly the same reasons.

 

[Frank the tank]

You know, after almost every school massacre, I find myself a couple of days into the coverage realizing that the only sympathetic figure in the whole fucking mess is the shooter. Two days after his Blacksburg rampage, the picture that is emerging of Seung Cho is that of a troubled young man, abandoned by society and abused by his fellows. The picture that emerges of the victims is that of cowards huddling in fear. Not one person in the entire building thought to take advantage of their numbers and rush Cho (a situation that has ended many such events before the death tolls could mount to catastrophic proportions). The 'victims' behaved like craven dogs, and I'm supposed to feel sorry because they were shot down like dogs? I don't think so. If they'd been worthy of life, they'd have at least tried to do something to stop the killer. But they didn't, and they weren't. The contrast between the worthless pansies at VA Tech and, say, the heroes who saved hundreds and possibly thousands of other lives by deliberately sacrificing themselves on United Flight 93 is striking. If the best my generation can do is hide under desks and wait for some skinny Asian kid to methodically execute them, then this nation is doomed. We are a broken race of broken people: if this is our measure, then I hope the terrorists win, because we simply do not deserve to continue to exist as a people. Let the mantle pass to some other, more worthy people, because we are not fit to bear it.

dude youre a fucked up asshole. you shouldnt feel sorry for the shooter, everyone gets picked on in their life, but that dont justify massacaring people - he had other options. besides you cant honestly say what you wouldve done in a moment that intense. i feel bad they had to die so young, you overthink this shit.

 

[speed]

No, just don't quite fully agree. Well, I agree they shouldn't be mourned, but not for exactly the same reasons.

Oh I meant that in a so what kind of way. So what, everyone disagrees with him.

 

[Silver Incubus]

Seung-Hui Cho was a mind-controlled assassin, whether you believe he was under the influence of outside parties or not, the fact is that the cultural brainwashing of violent video games and psychotropic drugs directly contributed, as it does in all these cases, to the carnage at Virginia Tech on Monday morning.

Gun grabbers are already exploiting the tragedy to disarm future students from the opportunity of being able to defend themselves against deranged killers, but the media circus is completely silent when it comes to the laying blame at the feet of a deadly cocktail of mind-warping drugs and bloodthirsty shoot-em-ups.

Outside of the obvious culpability of the factors we see in every mass shooting - video games and "antidepressant" drugs, numerous red flags concerning Monday events are beginning to suggest that Cho was more than a heartbroken nutcase with an axe to grind.

Charles Mesloh, Professor of Criminology at Florida Gulf Coast University, told NBC 2 News that he was shocked Cho could have killed 32 people with two handguns absent expert training. Mesloh immediately assumed that Cho must have used a shotgun or an assault rifle.

"I'm dumbfounded by the number of people he managed to kill with these weapons," said Mesloh, "The only thing I can figure is that he got close to them and he simply executed them."


Mesloh said the killer performed like a trained professional, "He had a 60% fatality rate with handguns - that's unheard of given 9 millimeters don't kill people instantly," said Mesloh, stating that the handguns Cho used were designed for "plinking at cans," not executing human beings.

Cho was certainly no slouch, in the two hour gap between the first reported shootings and the wider rampage that would occur later in the morning, during which time the University completely failed to warn the students despite having loudspeakers stationed throughout the campus, Cho had time to film a confession video, transfer it to his computer, burn it onto a DVD, package it up, travel to the post office, post the package, and travel back to his dorm room to retrieve his guns and then travel back to the opposite end of the campus to resume the killing spree. The almost inconceivable speed of Cho's actions become more suspicious when we recall initial reports that there were two shooters.

Even if we rule out the fact that Cho had received expert firearms training, the cultural mind control of violent video games and mind-altering psychotropic drugs were themselves a cocktail of brainwashing that directly contributed to the carnage, as they do in nearly all these cases.

From the very first reports of the shootings we predicted the killer would be on prozac, would have recently been in psychiatric care and would have regularly played violent video games and that has precisely turned out to be accurate in all three instances.

"Several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly a game called "Counterstrike," a hugely popular online game in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns," reports Newsmax citing the Washington Post.

"In December 2005 -- more than a year before Monday's mass shootings -- a district court in Montgomery County, Va., ruled that Cho presented "an imminent danger to self or others." That was the necessary criterion for a detention order, so that Cho, who had been accused of stalking by two female schoolmates, could be evaluated by a state doctor and ordered to undergo outpatient care," reports ABC News , " but despite the court identifying the future killer as a risk, they let him go.

Investigators believe that Cho Seung Hui, the Virginia Tech murderer, had been taking anti-depressant medication at some point before the shootings, according to The Chicago Tribune .

Columbine shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, as well as 15-year-old Kip Kinkel, the Oregon killer who gunned down his parents and classmates, were all on psychotropic drugs. Scientific studies proving that prozac encourages suicidal tendencies in young people are voluminous and span back nearly a decade.

Jeff Weise, the Red Lake High School killer was on prozac , "Unabomber" Ted Kaczinski, Michael McDermott, John Hinckley, Jr., Byran Uyesugi, Mark David Chapman and Charles Carl Roberts IV, the Amish school killer, were all on SSRI psychotropic drugs.

Since these deadly drugs are prevalent in almost all mass shooting incidents, where is the call to ban prozac? Why is the knee-jerk reaction always to attack the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans to self-defense, a right that was exercised in January 2002 when students subdued a shooter at another Virginia university before he could kill more than three people because they were allowed guns on campus?

Why are the deeper reasons behind what motivates young men to kill pushed aside while control freaks demand that law-abiding citizens be disarmed of the only thing that can protect them from such madmen?

Questions about the sequence of events on Monday, VA Tech, as well as the profile of the killer are arousing increased suspicion.

We have been receiving numerous calls and e mails alerting us to the fact that VA Tech is pulling links from its website concerning their relationship with the CIA. Reports from November 2005 confirm that the CIA was active in operating recruitment programs based out of VA Tech. Several professors from VA Tech are involved in government programs linked with NASA and other agencies.

Wikipedia also pulled a bizarre recently taken photograph of Cho wearing a U.S. Marines uniform.

Such details only fan the flames of accusations that Cho could have been a Manchurian Candidate, a mind-controlled assassin.

The CIA's program to create mind-controlled assassins that could be triggered by code words, MK ULTRA, is not a conspiracy theory, it's a historical fact documented by declassified government files and Senate hearings . President Bill Clinton himself had to apologize for the program before he left office.

On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy said, "The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an 'extensive testing and experimentation' program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens 'at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign."

One such victim of these experiments was Cathy O'Brien, who immediately after the shootings re-iterated the revelations in her latest book, that Blacksburg Virginia is a central location for mind control programs that are still ongoing today.

CIA mind control programs can be tracked back to the 1950's and Project BLUEBIRD, later renamed ARTICHOKE. From blogger Kurt Nimmo;

“BLUEBIRD was approved by the CIA director on April 20, 1950. In August 1951, the Project was renamed ARTICHOKE. BLUEBIRD and ARTICHOKE included a great deal of work on the creation of amnesia, hypnotic couriers, and the Manchurian Candidate,” writes Colin A. Ross, MD. “ARTICHOKE documents prove that hypnotic couriers functioned effectively in real-life simulations conducted by the CIA in the early 1950's. The degree to which such individuals were used in actual operations is still classified…. BLUEBIRD and ARTICHOKE were administered in a compartmented fashion. The details of the programs were kept secret even form other personnel within the CIA…. The BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE materials establish conclusively that full Manchurian Candidates were created and tested successfully by physicians with TOP SECRET clearance from the CIA…. As well as being potential couriers and infiltration agents, the subjects could function in effect as hypnotically controlled cameras. They could enter a room or building, memorize materials quickly, leave the building, and then be amnesic for the entire episode. The memorized material could then be retrieved by a handler using a previously implanted code or signal, without the amnesia being disturbed. Hypnosis was not the mind control doctors' only method for creation of controlled amnesia, however. Drugs, magnetic fields, sound waves, sleep deprivation, solitary confinement, and many other methods were studied under BLUEBIRD and ARTHICHOKE.”

Researchers into supposed "lone nut" assassinations time and time again run across evidence pointing to CIA mind control experimentation. The best example is Sirhan Sirhan, Bobby Kennedy's assassin. Sirhan was found to be in a completely trance-like state after pulling the trigger and couldn't even remember shooting Kennedy when asked about the incident days later. Sirhan's lawyer, Lawrence Teeter, has presented convincing evidence that Sirhan was under mind control.

Either way you cut it, Seung-Hui Cho was a victim of brainwashing and mind control. The right questions are not being asked and the finger of blame is being pointed in the wrong direction, ensuring that another tragedy like the VA Tech Massacre is almost guaranteed.

take what you will from this, I just thought that it may add to possible areas of discussion. Of course most people don't believe in the CIA, i mean the real CIA, but if, then just maybe it explains a few things.

 

[JColtrane]

This is a bullshit argument. One could just as easily say that you can't condemn the shooter because you don't know what you would have done in his circumstances. Or, hell, you might as well say no one can criticize Isaiah Thomas if they haven't been GM of the Knicks. I know myself. I know how I react under stress. I know I wouldn't have just waited to die like a coward.



Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone is cravenly complicit in their own demise. I see no reason to extend sympathy to people who made no meaningful effort to live.

(1)Actually, as someone said earlier, we as metalheads have probably been subjected to some of the same stuff as this guy had. I think each of us in our subjective existence can much more identify with being made fun of and put down by the rich than being shot at. My point is: No, you don't know yourself well enough to know for certain what you would do in that situation. Most likely, you've never been in anything like it. So you are pronouncing these people cowards based on your own assumptions, not on any well-founded, rational argument.

(2)How were any of these people complicit? Did they assent to being shot? Did the shooter ask them if they would like to die? Anyways, it doesn't even matter because you didn't address my argument: Apparently these people did not meet the point on your little scale upon which they can be mourned. I'm sorry, but I think it's just a little bit presumptious for you to tell us "Don't mourn". That's an imperative. I'm not going to follow your imperative based on your own bullshit scale of who is good enough to be mourned.

 

[OldScratch]

In 2001 Jeff Snyder wrote a boolk called, "A Nation Of Cowards" which was ostensibly about gun-control, but curiously enough addressed in some depth the apparent erosion in Americans of survival instinct and the will to stand and fight when that was called for. In far too many documented cases, folks are indeed all-too-willing to lay down and die, rather than fight tooth and claw unto their last breath. Whether this was the case in Virginia I cannot say, but rather than get stuck on the unvarnished nature of the Scourge's appraisal, it may indeed be food for thought.

 

[BloodSword]

Aren't you in a wheelchair? 10 bucks on the Scourge.

I haven't posted here in awhile, and I've been reminded why with the above quote by the brilliant Justin S. There are a few "posers" on here that ruin this forum for the fairly intelligient people. 2 that come to mind are Scourge and Justin S. If it acts like a fucktard and posts like a fucktard, then there's a 100% chance it is a fucktard. And if the intial reason for this post was to infuriate, cause dissension or make fun of dead people just to see what the general reaction would be, I say to Speed, if you are a forum moderator, do your fuckin' job.

 

[Justin S.]

BloodSword,

Regrettably, the less intelligent are ascendant here. Not only am I a moderator, but my fellow poseur and all-around fucktard might soon be as well. Unquestionably, we will ruin the thoughtful discourse of posters like yourself and Frank the Tank. Blame it on the chakras.

Furthermore, it seems that if anyone's posts have been in violation of policy, whether by measure of general aggressivity or rash profanity-laced insults, it would be yours.

Please, leave us here to our own demise.

 

[Blowtus]

Blame it on the chakras.

 

[Tom Strutton]

I haven't posted here in awhile, and I've been reminded why with the above quote by the brilliant Justin S. There are a few "posers" on here that ruin this forum for the fairly intelligient people. 2 that come to mind are Scourge and Justin S. If it acts like a fucktard and posts like a fucktard, then there's a 100% chance it is a fucktard. And if the intial reason for this post was to infuriate, cause dissension or make fun of dead people just to see what the general reaction would be, I say to Speed, if you are a forum moderator, do your fuckin' job.

Couldn't have put it better. I've highlighted the part that relates to my initial outburst.

 

[MetalBooger]

In far too many documented cases, folks are indeed all-too-willing to lay down and die, rather than fight tooth and claw unto their last breath.

so like 60% of say 1 in 10000 people who are put in these situations are pussies when facing a gun? that sounds about right, and perfectly normal.

It is simply practical to not fight back unarmed when facing a psycho with a pistol. Sudden movements would certainly provoke a man with adrenaline pumping through his body to do something stupid. If you are clever enough and are certain in your abilities however, which requires often a pistol of your own, i can see a reason to fight back.

Nation of cowards my ass, you have million man army, nukes, bazookas, automatic rifles and fighter jets. These weapons arent to prevent war(MAD), they were made because America sadly isnt afraid to pick fights. Civilians are not warriors, they are the backbone of the american industry, and not meant to fight, so dont call them cowards.

 

[BloodSword]

Justin S, you are a GHOST!!! The rapid demise of this forum is not because of my "rash profanity-laced posts" but for comments posted by yourself and others which predicated my response. There are some really cool people on this forum I'm sure. And like all large gatherings, there's always a few that think their above all reproach. I assure you I'm gone from this arrogant forum so fast that when I turn off the light switch, I'm in bed before the room is dark. See Ya, wouldn't want to be ya!!

 

[speed]

I haven't posted here in awhile, and I've been reminded why with the above quote by the brilliant Justin S. There are a few "posers" on here that ruin this forum for the fairly intelligient people. 2 that come to mind are Scourge and Justin S. If it acts like a fucktard and posts like a fucktard, then there's a 100% chance it is a fucktard. And if the intial reason for this post was to infuriate, cause dissension or make fun of dead people just to see what the general reaction would be, I say to Speed, if you are a forum moderator, do your fuckin' job.

Hey, I havent been moderator for like 8 or 9 months!!! I think he's doing a good job though.

And it is sometimes difficult to hold back on ones thoughts as a moderator. Thats why I stepped down.

 

[Scourge of God]

(1)Actually, as someone said earlier, we as metalheads have probably been subjected to some of the same stuff as this guy had.

But their experience is not identical, so, by your logic, it doesn't apply.

I think each of us in our subjective existence can much more identify with being made fun of and put down by the rich than being shot at. My point is: No, you don't know yourself well enough to know for certain what you would do in that situation.

Bullshit. I've experienced traumatic stress and didn't break before. I would have rushed the shooter, of that there is no doubt. You may not know whether you were gifted with courage or cowardice, but some of us are simply better than the losers who chose to lay down and die.

Bottom line: your whole line of argument is specious and unworthy of an intellectual discussion - the whole of its internal logic is directed at denying the possibility of discussion. You're just an intellectual coward unwilling to face the fact that people who don't try to live deserve to die. Just because YOU'VE been brainwashed into pity for the worthless by the Electric Jew doesn't mean we're all so handicapped. Let the weak bury the weak. The strong have no time for pussies.

(2)How were any of these people complicit? Did they assent to being shot? Did the shooter ask them if they would like to die?

Silence is assent, and the failure to fight for life is complicity in death.

Anyways, it doesn't even matter because you didn't address my argument: Apparently these people did not meet the point on your little scale upon which they can be mourned.

They've done nothing to deserve mourning. So they died, so what? Show me that they deserved live in the first place, and maybe I'll consider pitying them.

 

[Justin S.]

I assure you I'm gone from this arrogant forum so fast that when I turn off the light switch, I'm in bed before the room is dark. See Ya, wouldn't want to be ya!!

Who knew that at age 51 "BloodSword" could deliver cutting school-yard taunts? A shame to lose such a wit...