Don't Mourn The Dead In Blacksburg

Status
Not open for further replies.
Let the weak bury the weak. The strong have no time for pussies.

Define strength, I personally am experienced with weapons, physically stronger than most, and probably stronger in terms of resource power, however that doesnt mean i will fight unarmed against a korean dude with a handgun, because perhaps intellectually i am strong enough to overcome what may seem to be bravery, and make a decision that wont end in me dying, for example, running away.

The police, who are far more experienced in these matters,suggest that civilians(which you are) should not be a hero, for that can often make things worse if they screw up, which chances are they would. On the contrary, if you think you are going to die, you might as well fight, but who knows what is going on in the heads of ppl who are in these situations. Scourge, if you rushed the shooter, you probably would have died, if you curled into a ball, you probably would have died.

Bullshit. I've experienced traumatic stress and didn't break before.

So you are admitting you have had past abuse, interesting, does this account for your egocentric, selfish, unattractive and bitter personality? Perhaps your claims of strength, and hatred for the weak are simply ways to justify contradicting your own insecurities and problems.

You're just an intellectual coward unwilling to face the fact that people who don't try to live deserve to die.

Interesting, so you like calling names? Kinda makes you seem more insecure. Anyways, you seem to be taking an anti-socialization approach to this topic, which further suggests you have had problems in this area, perhaps a neglected social life? You do not take into account their process for surviving these terrorist attacks, like i said there are a variety of ways to do this, like running away. Perhaps they were trying to live by not pissing off the korean dude, and by acting in a defensive manner. Therefore your statement has no meaning to this discussion, because it doesnt take into account how these people tried to survive, you made a foolish decision that since these people died, they therefore were cowards and didnt try to live, so therefore deserved what they got. That is both intellectually lazy and fairly immature, and not well thought out.

brainwashed into pity for the worthless by the Electric Jew

Ah yes, the old jewish conspiracy theory, well, perhaps you yourself have been brainwashed then, for why do you have such a onesided, bitter view of humanity? Maybe cuz you are biased and only listen to things that support your views? Maybe blackmetal for a start? and im just assuming you onlylisten to blackmetal, cuz i doubt you listen to blind guardian.

Silence is assent, and the failure to fight for life is complicity in death.

Like i said, you dont take into account their method of fighting for survival, and you make lazy unjustified conclusions based on a bitter ideology on how they deserved to die. And silence is assent? okay, so these people, because they couldnt call a fucking reporter and tell the world that a bullet was going through their brain were complicit in their deaths? Or that they couldnt talk from the grave? you make no sense. Or perhaps you are taking the old apathy approach, sorry but i dont see how this applies.

They've done nothing to deserve mourning. So they died, so what? Show me that they deserved live in the first place, and maybe I'll consider pitying them.

O boy, okay, first of all its sad when a young person dies, because their potential for living a wonderful life and making children and contributing to society and making art and so on is crushed. They had families, and probably were worth more than you if you want to think of actual value to society. And even though you may not like this, the majority of the world's population does believe in God, and spirit, and good and evil, and seeing an evil act is often sad, and it is good to care for other people, and love. But since i suspect you have trouble in these social areas, like friends, family, and love, you probably dont understand this. And practically, to justify this, Majority of the world's beliefs > Minority of the world's beliefs. Meaning your bitter views just arent as important. Like i said these kids probably are worth more than you, they probably had more friends, more earning potential, greater tax contribution, and so on. Plus a teacher died, who was very important in terms of positively affecting the many people who were under him.

Overall, if you want to be a bitter, anti-social and selfish person, your views are acceptable, and probably beneficial in supporting your fleeting and isolated life on earth, but for people who have more social, positive views of humanity, which luckily account for most ppl, just prolly not the ppl around you, terrorist rampages are often sad, and deserve pity.
 
The 'victims' behaved like craven dogs, and I'm supposed to feel sorry because they were shot down like dogs? I don't think so. If they'd been worthy of life, they'd have at least tried to do something to stop the killer. But they didn't, and they weren't. The contrast between the worthless pansies at VA Tech and, say, the heroes who saved hundreds and possibly thousands of other lives by deliberately sacrificing themselves on United Flight 93 is striking. If the best my generation can do is hide under desks and wait for some skinny Asian kid to methodically execute them, then this nation is doomed. We are a broken race of broken people: if this is our measure, then I hope the terrorists win, because we simply do not deserve to continue to exist as a people. Let the mantle pass to some other, more worthy people, because we are not fit to bear it.

Wow and you think you'd jump infront of the shooter? Nah, you'd first think about your own life, cretin. I gurantee you that 99% of us Americans would probably run for our lives when faced by a shooter. I'm also shocked by some of the first replies to that guy, you aren't supposed to agree with such absurd comments like these!!!
 
I'm also shocked by some of the first replies to that guy, you aren't supposed to agree with such absurd comments like these!!!

Yes, this was what shocked me too.

Scourge, I don't know you and I'm not your enemy. From what I've read of your posts in other threads you seem like a smart and articulate person. However, the thread you started here, whilst raising some interesting points, reveals someone consumed by bitterness and intolerance. These are not the characteristics of a dispassionate, objective mind. What REALLY confuses me is your OTT defensiveness to some of the retorts you've been getting...I mean, it's almost as if this is the first time anyone's ever disagreed with you and you're taken aback that such a thing could happen.
 
Im just waiting for him to post some more bullshit saying we are weak victims of jewish media mind control.
 
scourge of god

"Bullshit. I've experienced traumatic stress and didn't break before. I would have rushed the shooter, of that there is no doubt. You may not know whether you were gifted with courage or cowardice, but some of us are simply better than the losers who chose to lay down and die.

Bottom line: your whole line of argument is specious and unworthy of an intellectual discussion - the whole of its internal logic is directed at denying the possibility of discussion. You're just an intellectual coward unwilling to face the fact that people who don't try to live deserve to die. Just because YOU'VE been brainwashed into pity for the worthless by the Electric Jew doesn't mean we're all so handicapped. Let the weak bury the weak. The strong have no time for pussies."

so, you are gifted with courage. you would have rushed the shooter. therefore, you deserve to live. this is the line of your argument. the people that didn't rush the shooter don't deserve to live. so, is that the just of this thread?

then again, you are claiming to know what you would do in a situation that you aren't in. ridiculous!

but, the folks who lined up didn't necessarily not deserve to live. its not a matter of deserving to or not. they didn't rush the shooter, and they didn't live. the laws of nature say that person didn't deserve to live. they didn't have it in them. you're dead on right. but, the weak can still be mourned.

mourning is a personal matter. you can't tell people whether or not they should mourn. for example, if my father died tomorrow, i would mourn. you're reason why i shouldn't mourn would make no difference.
 
Define strength, I personally am experienced with weapons, physically stronger than most, and probably stronger in terms of resource power, however that doesnt mean i will fight unarmed against a korean dude with a handgun, because perhaps intellectually i am strong enough to overcome what may seem to be bravery, and make a decision that wont end in me dying, for example, running away.

Have you not followed the story at all? Most of the victims died in a single second floor classroom - there was nowhere to run. The options were:

1. fight

2. die

Afraid of death, they chose actions that ensured death. That is weakness no matter how you spin it. Idiocy as well, for that matter.

The police, who are far more experienced in these matters,suggest that civilians(which you are) should not be a hero

The police - who are 'crats with badges - want a population that is passive and easily controlled. They're not really concerned about keeping things safer when they're not around. Take their advice with a grain of salt.

On the contrary, if you think you are going to die, you might as well fight, but who knows what is going on in the heads of ppl who are in these situations.

In this case, obviously nothing of substance.

Scourge, if you rushed the shooter, you probably would have died, if you curled into a ball, you probably would have died.

And if I'd lain on the floor and waited for the executioner, I'd be dead, sure as shit stinks. I've said it before and will say it again: the possibility of living on your feet beats the fuck out of the certainty of dying on your knees.

So you are admitting you have had past abuse, interesting, does this account for your egocentric, selfish, unattractive and bitter personality? Perhaps your claims of strength, and hatred for the weak are simply ways to justify contradicting your own insecurities and problems.

No, I'm saying that two years ago, some tweaked out my pals tried to mug me at knifepoint in Atlanta - note that I'm alive and he didn't get my cash.

Interesting, so you like calling names?

No, but I like calling things what they are. If you're going to hide from the truth behind a veil of sentiment and moralizing, that's intellectual cowardice and you're an intellectual coward, period. This isn't namecalling, it's a simple recognition of the actual nature of your behavior.

Anyways, you seem to be taking an anti-socialization approach to this topic

Where have I spoken out against 'socialization'? All I'm saying is that there's no reason to respect or mourn for people who lie down and wait to die, because they lack the courage to do anything else. You might have understood that if you'd taken the time to actually read what I've written, rather than wasting your time and mine with your amateur psychobabble.

You do not take into account their process for surviving

THERE WAS NEITHER SURVIVAL NOR A PROCESS! They huddled on the floor waiting to die, and, SURPRISE(!!), they did die. What, exactly, is there to 'take into account' here?

these terrorist attacks

Way to go right for the moralizing Newspeak, George.

like i said there are a variety of ways to do this, like running away.

Because running away is a viable option when the guy with the gun is blocking the only exit. :roll

Perhaps they were trying to live by not pissing off the korean dude, and by acting in a defensive manner.

A strategy which should have been proven a failure in the first 30 seconds of the shooting spree. Look, you're only reinforcing my point, which is that these kids broke down and gave in to the counsel of their fears rather than taking rational, meaningful action. Useless fucks, why mourn them?

Therefore your statement has no meaning to this discussion, because it doesnt take into account how these people tried to survive

They didn't make any effort to survive, you ninny. You're asking me to take into account actions that were never taken. The bodies of the 'victims' were found mostly huddled in fetal positions. They weren't killed by ranged shots, they were killed at point blank range in classic execution style. They weren't fighting, they weren't even running. They collapsed into inertia and just sat around waiting for death (which, incidentally, is one of the classic responses of cowards to combat situations).

Ah yes, the old jewish conspiracy theory

Oh come off it, you sanctimonious twat. It's a fucking expression and you know it. You also know (if you're intelligent) that the response to the incident has been entirely shaped - indeed, formed from whole cloth - by the media. The feigned grief, the outpouring of sympathy, the 'oh those poor kids' crap and the usual demonizing of 'violent' films (it took them a couple of days, perhaps because no one in the Infotainment Industrial Complex watches decent movies, but they've finally gotten around to blaming Oldboy for the shooter's behavior) - all of these reactions are ginned up by the media and produced by people who behave the way the television tells them they should be behaving and feel what the idiot box tells them they should feel.

well, perhaps you yourself have been brainwashed then, for why do you have such a onesided, bitter view of humanity?

Because a positive view of humanity is a product of not actually taking the facts into account. You want to delude yourself with rosy depictions of the human condition? Fine. That's your deal. As for me, I'll have to content myself with the mundane ugliness of a realistic appraisal.

Maybe cuz you are biased and only listen to things that support your views? Maybe blackmetal for a start? and im just assuming you onlylisten to blackmetal, cuz i doubt you listen to blind guardian.

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

And silence is assent? okay, so these people, because they couldnt call a fucking reporter and tell the world that a bullet was going through their brain were complicit in their deaths?

I see that the basic meaning of well-trodden aphorisms is beyond you. There's no point in continuing this particular discussion with someone who isn't even familiar with basic English idiom.
 
Useless fucks, why mourn them?

Why mourn anyone, particularly those you don't know and don't affect your life? I don't pretend to have a complete understanding of the reason people mourn, but the social aspect, and the agreeance that it is a bad result, would seem pretty high up there for this one. By openly mourning you prove to those around you that you care about people in a 'normal' and 'compassionate' manner - you fit in with the herd mentality better, which can make you more powerful within the herd, and not lessen your power as an outburst like yours may.
 
And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with mourning those who have done nothing to earn that mark of respect - it strengthens the herd, the very source of the problems that lead to incidents like this in the first place.
 
Fair point, I think I agree.

Why would they be worthy of mourning, empowering the herd mentality, if they'd all tried to tackle the guy and died trying? Is there really a substantial difference in the worthiness of mourning? Would seem rather purposeless in either case to me. Why worry oneself at all over individual 'news worthy' incidents of death on a larger scale than normal, when they are just indicative of our present reality and bear no personal impact?
 
And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with mourning those who have done nothing to earn that mark of respect - it strengthens the herd, the very source of the problems that lead to incidents like this in the first place.

"Strengthens the herd" :lol: :lol: :lol:

You do realize that you are officially a member of the herd for saying that...You know, if you say exactly the opposite of what society says, you're still basing your opinions on society:rolleyes:
 
Why worry oneself at all over individual 'news worthy' incidents of death on a larger scale than normal, when they are just indicative of our present reality and bear no personal impact?

That certainly seems a better approach that a week long orgy of affected grief, hand-wringing and overwrought moralizing from the talking-head set and their collective lap-dog audience. It's the excritiating phoniness of it all I cannot abide.
 
Scourge still didnt answer why he was being lazy and assumed(the mother of all fuckups) that the victims just gave up, instead of surviving. And i still get a big ol feeling that you're an asshole in real life. Tell me scourge, how popular are these bitter views around your friends? And furthermore, have you actually argued these things in real life apart from on metal forums? Say university? At least i used the police as a legitimate reference, yet you have no evidence. My views are consistent with the norm, cuz guess what, thats what matters. You live a lie, lifes not that bad, and there isnt some huge conspiracy to fuck you up. I suggest you watch penn and teller's bullshit, they do a good job explaining how people become paranoid and delusional in most of their episodes.

And i obviously said something right because out of your insecurity, which i noticed you didnt address, you were threatened enough to take your time and write a lengthy response. I know you obviously got balls cuz if you didnt you would just admit you were wrong and run away, so im not expecting you to concede defeat even though the vast majority of human civilization would agree with me. I guess you can be happy at least about one thing, you certainly are different.


If you gonna reply, just give me this: A respectable person, who has contributed to society, has some degree of power and media recognition that agrees with your bitter views. And please not Hitler, he was kinda a badguy ya know. Dont blame that the media censors these great minds also, cuz even the stupidest fags can be heard now adays.
 
Fair point, I think I agree.

Why would they be worthy of mourning, empowering the herd mentality, if they'd all tried to tackle the guy and died trying? Is there really a substantial difference in the worthiness of mourning?

If there had been healthy actions worth celebrating, then the outpouring of respect would serve the useful purpose of validating productive actions. As it is, it serves no purpose beyond increasing the satisfaction of the herd in its own moral purity.
 
Scourge still didnt answer why he was being lazy and assumed(the mother of all fuckups) that the victims just gave up, instead of surviving.

Because, unlike you, I've actually followed the reports closely. Witnesses reported watching him methodically executing cowering students, while none reported an attempt to STOP the attacks. Most of the carnage occurred in a single classroom. Just today, the medical examiner released a report which noted the total absence of the sort of injuries which one expects to find on people who struggle with their attackers on any of the victims. Unlike you, I assume NOTHING. I merely gathered the facts then put them in context.
 
Educating oneself would seem at least as productive as learning to deal with highly unlikely scenarios, to me. I would see no more reason to mourn them had they tried tackling the bloke.
 
But what is being celebrated here (in fact) is not education, but martyrdom. By mourning those who chose passivity over struggle, we are celebrating the same tired Judeo-Christian values that have brought civilization to the precipice of extinction. By allowing these privileged cowards to be made into holy images of saintly innocence, we allow those whose agenda for our society is anything but holy and saintly to dictate how we are to feel about and react to death and 'tragedy.' Worse, we provide a smokescreen, a veil of 'moral' righteousness behind which they can act to turn MORE of our youth into useless (to everyone but the corporate slavers) drones bereft of even so much as a fucking survival instinct.

We should not mourn. Instead, we should insult, denigrate and mock. We should not extend our sympathy, instead, we should send letters cheering the deaths of these worthless fucks to their parents, friends, and family. Rather than demonizing the shooter, we should praise him and hold HIM up as the martyr to a world that preferred the gentle lies to the ugly truths. Not a passive, sainted, USELESS martyr, but as a man who had the courage to eliminate the unfit, even though society refused to understand him.
 
sry scourge, unfortunatly its exam time and i dont really have as much time as i would like to be so intimately involved with the electric jew. And i see you are assuming(mother of all fuckups) things again, by saying "unlike you, I assume NOTHING" you are assuming that you do not assume, when in fact i prolly could find a bunch of examples when you are assuming. I guess for example when you call people cowards, when all you base this on is a stupid forum posting.

And of course your close analysis of the news stories also shows how even you are a victim of what you claim to be a brainwashing conspiracy. Dont argue with this, by watching what you say is wrong you contradict yourself.

By mourning those who chose passivity over struggle, we are celebrating the same tired Judeo-Christian values that have brought civilization to the precipice of extinction.
Kindly back this up with evidence, last i heared the earth's population was increasing. And isnt it birth control(a christian no no) contributing to decrease in populations, while nice ol catholics are making tons o babies?


And once again you arent giving any explanation or proof that your way of thinking is correct. A lone idiot(which may or maynot be you) does not have the legitimacy of a person whose beliefs are almost universally accepted(probably me). You arent convincing me because you fail to prove that your own personal demons and insecurities are a large scale problem in the world. All you are saying is that you are self centered and bitter.

To repeat myself:
If you gonna reply, just give me this: A respectable person, who has contributed to society, has some degree of power and media recognition that agrees with your bitter views. And please not Hitler, he was kinda a badguy ya know. Dont blame that the media censors these great minds also, cuz even the stupidest fags can be heard now adays.
 
But what is being celebrated here (in fact) is not education, but martyrdom. By mourning those who chose passivity over struggle, we are celebrating the same tired Judeo-Christian values that have brought civilization to the precipice of extinction. By allowing these privileged cowards to be made into holy images of saintly innocence, we allow those whose agenda for our society is anything but holy and saintly to dictate how we are to feel about and react to death and 'tragedy.' Worse, we provide a smokescreen, a veil of 'moral' righteousness behind which they can act to turn MORE of our youth into useless (to everyone but the corporate slavers) drones bereft of even so much as a fucking survival instinct.

We should not mourn. Instead, we should insult, denigrate and mock. We should not extend our sympathy, instead, we should send letters cheering the deaths of these worthless fucks to their parents, friends, and family. Rather than demonizing the shooter, we should praise him and hold HIM up as the martyr to a world that preferred the gentle lies to the ugly truths. Not a passive, sainted, USELESS martyr, but as a man who had the courage to eliminate the unfit, even though society refused to understand him.


I haven't paid any attention to the media reports, I don't know that anything is being celebrated. My position of mourning, derision, or indifference, is not influenced by the extraneous rubbish the media circus comes up with. If you think you can achieve something worthwhile through derision then go ahead, I don't see the potential positive effects in this case. Just because some choose to celebrate aspects of something I find bad, doesn't mean I necessarily respond purely in opposition to them - I may have my own position I have reached through consideration of other matters.
 
To repeat myself:
If you gonna reply, just give me this: A respectable person, who has contributed to society, has some degree of power and media recognition that agrees with your bitter views. And please not Hitler, he was kinda a badguy ya know. Dont blame that the media censors these great minds also, cuz even the stupidest fags can be heard now adays.

Look, I not going to waste time with your solicitation of logical fallacies.
 
I haven't paid any attention to the media reports, I don't know that anything is being celebrated. My position of mourning, derision, or indifference, is not influenced by the extraneous rubbish the media circus comes up with. If you think you can achieve something worthwhile through derision then go ahead, I don't see the potential positive effects in this case. Just because some choose to celebrate aspects of something I find bad, doesn't mean I necessarily respond purely in opposition to them - I may have my own position I have reached through consideration of other matters.

Events like this don't take place in a vacuum. There's no real way of seperating the events of April 17, 2007 from the "Blacksburg Massacre" of the media coverage. If you mourn or show sympathy, regardless of your personal motivations, you're only strengthening a particular interpretation of the event that is being promulgated by the media. Whatever YOU mean by it, it will simply be lost in the 'consensus' meaning created from whole cloth by the media.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.