Drum Samples, Replacement, Triggers FAQ

[006]

What exactly are you trying to do with it? It's not a "sampler" where you can feed it multiple MIDI notes and it will know which notes should trigger which samples, if that's what you are trying for. It's just like Drumagog where you can feed it MIDI and it will trigger from every MIDI note it receives, just can't assign what sample gets triggered from which note. So if you were trying to do a whole drumset, for example, you would need multiple MIDI tracks (one for kick, one for snare, one for each tom separately), and have apTrigga for each of those (so let's say 5 instances for kick/snare/t1/t2/t3 setup) and have your samples in each one. Then you'd route each MIDI track's output to the corresponding apTrigga and it'll play back in real time no problemo. Sounds kinda elaborate, BUT the good news is that it barely even takes any resources, especially compared to Drumagog...shit, before I could only have like 3 instances of Drumagog in unrealistic testing vs. 15 instances of apTrigga with the same sample sets in the same test.

~006

 

[Metaltastic]

That's fine, all I need it to do is accept the MIDI notes for the kick that I'll be sending it (courtesy of KTDrumTrigger) and play me back some samplage, so I think it should be able to handle that (and I'll just make a new instance on another track if I wanna sample replace that)

 

[Metaltastic]

And I see from your edit that we're on the same page, and yeah, I was wondering about APTrigga's resource impact, so I'm glad to hear it's minor!

 

[arthurdestroyer]

Very nice!! a very good guide to replace!

Thanks for share you're knowledge

 

[TOMB]

In regards to triggering/editing/mixing drums just thought I would let you know how I did it, just to give some ideas...

Kick : Drumagog/EQ/Subbass/Compression/Stereo Spread
Snare : Drumagog/EQ/Compression/Stereo Spread
Toms : EQ/Reverb/Compression/Stereo Spread
Cymbals/HiHat : EQ/Reverb/Compression/Stereo Spread

I find Stereo Spread makes the sound fuller, It takes alot of tweaking to get it right for each part of the drums, but when you find that sweet spot everything blends nicely. EQ is a MUST in my opinion. You can make each piece of the kit sound EXACTLY how you want it to. And again alot of tweaking is involved to get a good sound. I Spend roughly 3 Hours straight Per Drum Track. (no half arseing in my mixes).

 

[ulverine]

I have a question when replacing live drum tracks. I've been replacing kicks/snares in Superior 2.0, but I haven't had any experience using Drumagog with live drums.

Since there are usually multiple hits/samples you can use of let's say a snare; well, when replacing a real snare (or augmenting) do you need multiple instances of Drumagog for each velocity? Soft, Med Soft, Med, Hard, etc etc etc.

I'm generally confused with that aspect.

 

[coneyis]

I have a question when replacing live drum tracks. I've been replacing kicks/snares in Superior 2.0, but I haven't had any experience using Drumagog with live drums.

Since there are usually multiple hits/samples you can use of let's say a snare; well, when replacing a real snare (or augmenting) do you need multiple instances of Drumagog for each velocity? Soft, Med Soft, Med, Hard, etc etc etc.

I'm generally confused with that aspect.

No, Drumagog uses it's own gog files which contain all the different velocities of that particular drum. All you need to do is insert Drumagog (let's say for your snare) and then make the adjustments within the program so it triggers properly. You can also change the threshold for when the different velocities get triggered. It's pretty awesome. I use it religiously!

 

[ulverine]

Thanks a bunch! Well that just opened a new door for me.

 

[AshM]

Hey guys, I have a couple drumagog questions..

I just bought it last week and there's a couple things I thought wouldn't be a problem and now are :S

1. Seeing as there are midi ins and outs I thought I would be able to send a midi output to Superior Drummer and trigger sounds in that, but it seems the routing is not internal and any midi in or out is physical. Any ideas on this?

2. The latency when using on Protools L.E makes it incredibly annoying to use and everything needs to be bounced and then physically moved into place, or drum tracks shifted along to be in time. I am considering buying Mellowmuse's Auto Time Adjuster but thats more money which I dont have! Again any ideas on this?

Cheers!

 

[DaveBlack]

I can't express my gratitude enough towards: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=20462

Name: DrumReaplacer
Plug-in Format: REAPER JS
Requirements: REAPER
Cost: Free (GPL)
Quality: 4 stars (Drumagog would be the benchmark; 5)

Thank god, for reaper I had to run to seperate plugins on each track just to replace drums. One that turned the audio into a velocity sensitive drum trigger and then samplomatic. And then setting all the parameters between the two plugins was a pain in the ass.

 

[JBroll]

Erm, perhaps a template would have saved some time?

Jeff

 

[::XeS::]

I have a curiosity. When you make a snare sample (not a dry sample, but a wet,compressed,eq sample) do you usually make it blending top and bottom togheter?
And when you have your own samples, where do you apply them?
In my last works I have my top and bottom snare tracks and the trigger track. In the past I applyed aptrigga to every tracks, but now I put aptrigga in the trigger track (with a top/bottom blended sample) and the other 2 tracks at natural (only with eq and comp).
How do you usually do?

 

[preachers]

Triggers are a little device that you attach to the drum(s). They have a piezo element in them that picks up each hit from the drummer. Typically the way to use them is to treat them like a microphone, because they essentially are just that, and plug them directly into a mic pre. What you will be recording from the triggers are these ticks or pops. These are extremely useful, even if you aren't going to replace the drums. They can help out tremendously with drum editing because they are a more precise representation of the drum hits. On the other hand, they are much better to use for triggering samples than triggering from an audio track of the mic'ed drum, again because they are more precise. Obviously with a trigger track, a track of ticks or pops, you are going to want to replace 100% unless you like the sound of somebody flicking a mic really hard.


~006

i'm a newbie to drum trigger. i'm looking for a suitable trigger brand. my question is, how can you directly plug your trigger's output to your mic pre? isn't it the trigger can only give a midi signal out? if there're some kinds of trigger can output a audio click, please recommened some for me, thanks a lot!

 

[Metaltastic]

Pretty sure every trigger just outputs an audio click, to turn that into a MIDI signal it normally goes to a drum module, but that's more for real-time replacement (like using them live) - for studio work you can just treat them as a little microphone!

 

[preachers]

Pretty sure every trigger just outputs an audio click, to turn that into a MIDI signal it normally goes to a drum module, but that's more for real-time replacement (like using them live) - for studio work you can just treat them as a little microphone!

thanks for answer, but another question here, i found a "percussion sound moudule" can set a "theshold" or "sensitivity" value in order to prevent bleed or unwanted hits, if i directly give them to my mic pre, is there a different from my conventional mic? i mean, are they have the same amount of bleed as my conventional mic?? or how can you prevent these problem in your usage?

 

[AllanD]

Hey guys. For everyone using Guitar Pro or whatever to make tracks, this is a great way to seperate and edit each track into a different file without using a program like EZdrummer.

http://www.davidputman.com/?software=midisplit.htm

That way you can load these files into your sampler of choice, and starts editing away without spending that 300$!


When you're trying to make the midi ride on the cymbal, how do you make that sound more realistic?

 

[JBroll]

The only solid 'trick' I know of for anything of the sort would be to go into the track and move the hits' positions and velocities around little bits at a time - do this right and people will think your drums were recorded by actual drummers.

Jeff

 

[Osse]

Hey ppl! Thanks for an interesting thread.

I've been foolin' around with replacing miced up drum samples and I'm thinking of a dedicated trigging system with trigg mics for better consistency and accuracy while trigging sounds.

I've got some questions:

1. Is trig mics a REALIABLE(and I mean VERY reliable) way to record information for post-record trigging?
2. It would be nice to be able to convert to midi PRE-record, is this desirable AND VERY RELIABLE? What about latency-issues? What about velocity curves for dynamic trigging?
3. If question 2 works, is there any recommended lenghts regarding MIDI cables, or can I use a approx 20m(60 feet) cable and put the MIDI box in the recording room, at the drums?


Thank you all! Cheers

 

[preachers]

thanks for answer, but another question here, i found a "percussion sound moudule" can set a "theshold" or "sensitivity" value in order to prevent bleed or unwanted hits, if i directly give them to my mic pre, is there a different from my conventional mic? i mean, are they have the same amount of bleed as my conventional mic?? or how can you prevent these problem in your usage?

anyone help?????

 

[Osse]

Hey ppl! Thanks for an interesting thread.

I've been foolin' around with replacing miced up drum samples and I'm thinking of a dedicated trigging system with trigg mics for better consistency and accuracy while trigging sounds.

I've got some questions:

1. Is trig mics a REALIABLE(and I mean VERY reliable) way to record information for post-record trigging?
2. It would be nice to be able to convert to midi PRE-record, is this desirable AND VERY RELIABLE? What about latency-issues? What about velocity curves for dynamic trigging?
3. If question 2 works, is there any recommended lenghts regarding MIDI cables, or can I use a approx 20m(60 feet) cable and put the MIDI box in the recording room, at the drums?


Thank you all! Cheers

I would really appreciate an answer to these questions, as i'm about to invest in a trig system. What do you guys think?

Thanks