Evolution and Republicans.

[Patrick R.]

Patrick, you're interested in explaining "why things evolve" and my point is, its not necessary to even start explaining. I truly BELIEVE that the explanation serves no purpose to humanity except 1. as an atheist creation myth and 2. to provide jobs for scientists who are perhaps too lazy to compete for real jobs in their field.

Paleontologists, Cosmologists, and to some extent Geologists are a waste. Geologists at least have a real world purpose of studying strata for the purpose of finding mineral resources or identifying safe building ground. But most of them find it easier to apply for grant money for some paper on supercontinent formation during the Pre-Cambrian Era.

And cosmologists? No, they have even less purpose than the paleontologist. At least the paleontologist reproduces interesting dinosaur fossils for the kiddie museums.

But we love those wacky Cosmos and their big black holes, don't we? Everyone swoons over the latest dark matter theory, as though it has a personal impact on their lives. The Big Bang is as emotional to modern man as God breathing life into Adam was for our ancestors.

Physicists have become the new philosophers, even though a physicist or mathematician knows less about the human condition than what goes into a cup of tea. It cracks me up to see books like "Einstein's Philosophy on Life" and "What would Einstein do?" or questions people ask of Stephen Hawking about personal relationships. I mean, Einstein is the last guy I'd ask about life's problems. But he is a prophet of our age, as is Hawking. Both of them are like high priests.

So evolution is the creation myth of modern man, the scientists are the lofty priests and guardians of this cult, and the peer review is like a college of cardinals who ensure that any new paper by a scientist closely adheres to the strict orthodoxy of the scientific community.

Jurched

Of course I'm explaining why things evolve, it is the mechanisms of evolution such as natural selection, where traits that have a survival value for a population of organisms become dominant. Genetic drift deals with traits in a population that a distributed between generations by chance. Gene flow is simply mixing of these traits by two different populations. This is necessary to explain population phenomenon, with bacteria for example, that evolve novel traits and become resistant to medicine. This can be a life or death struggle and there is no room for political and religious agendas for this one.

Mathematics supports evolutionary theory, humans and chimpanzees have an identical cytochrome c protein sequence. Not a “similar” sequence, but an identical one. Why would two different species have an identical cytochrome c protein sequence when there is a seemingly endless functionally equivalent sequences? What are the chances of that? It is perhaps a problem for statisticians, especially the ones who are interested in mathematical probability, which has already been taking care of by a physicist named Hubert Yockey in his work “Information Theory and Molecular Biology”.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Information-Theory-Molecular-Biology-Hubert/dp/0521350050[/ame]



Phylogenetic trees reconstruct evolutionary relationships, it is basically a tree of life. Even with a small number of organisms, there a numerous different trees possible, for organisms there is a possibility of 14 trillion different trees! There are two methods of phylogenetic reconstruction of various organisms, through morphological characteristics and molecular sequences, and they match with a high degree of statistical significance. Something that is very unlikely if organisms weren’t related.

Despite the math of the situation, many creationist still disbelieve that humans and chimpanzees are related, despite the very slight chances that would have an identical cytochrome c protein sequences with absence of heredity. It reminds me of Dumb & Dumber when Jim Carrey finally met that beautiful red head and he asked her what the chances were of them going out and she said “not good” and he said “not good like 1 in a 100” and she said more like “1 out of a million” and Jim Carrey was like “you mean there still is a chance? YEAH!”. There is of course that “chance” that humans and chimpanzees could have an identical cytochrome c protein sequence if we weren’t related and share common ancestry…it just isn’t a very good chance! And yet, anti-evolutionist claim that evolution is just a theory about evolving by “chance”!

 

[Patrick R.]

That's an idealistic portrayal of the scientific method, Patrick. My problem with modern science, at least the part that hinges on origins, is that orthodoxy counts for more than discovery. A great deal of scientists are as hard-headed as my nonscientist brother when it comes to things "being a certain way." I was criticising peer review earlier, and I've read some serious allegations by scientists who've found themselves either censored or outright blacklisted by their peers during the review process because their conclusions were not of the right "correctness." Meaning scientific PC, I guess. That sort of thing bothers me. Scientists always swear their field is forever changing and nothing is concrete, but they fight changes like its death itself. They fear that the last couple of articles they published in an unread journal will become obsolete before they die, I suppose!

Its not just in classic science, though. I've followed the tribulations of historical revisionists who attempted to fiddle with the carefully delineated timelines of ancient Egypt. Apparently, though, the fossils who guard Egyptian orthodoxy have blacklisted all attempts to correct many problems with Egypt's timeline, because presumably it would also make all theiressays and books obsolete.

In a nut shell, our intellectuals are more interested in defending their property than advancing the cause of science.

Jurched

There is of course a lot of biased people with regards to anything humans have to say. You are a very political, you know all about biased people. You are smart enough to understand the stupidity of politicians and scientist. And you raise a good point of course, in the end whoever has the sharper elbows will win the debate, unfortunately this will not be along the lines of science.

Perhaps the most controversial topic within Western academia is racial differences. Despite the reality that physical anthropologist, especially the ones who work with forensics and law enforcement, say they can indeed identify human races by distinguishing characteristics, but it isn’t popular in academia so therefore this is ignored. The same is true with medical genetics, despite biomedical researchers and doctors pointing out the benefits of racial classification and medical treatment, it is still not welcomed in peer review journals.

http://genomebiology.com/2002/3/7/comment/2007/

When there is a real stink in science, it is usually related to political and political agendas. With Egypt, Eurocentric and Afrocentric nut cases have really put a strain on trying to discover the actually physical appearance of the ancient Egyptians. With facial reconstruction of the boy king Tutankhamun and Nefertiti, the reconstructions are biased. That is what I like about research in general, it is a never ending debate.

 

[Jurched]

Did you just make a comparison between scientists trying to further stem cell research and developing human/bovine embryos to enhance our medical knowledge of diseases such as alzheimers to religious extremists, who blow up buildings, wage war, commit sincere atrocities and essentially try to catagorize females as inferior?

C.mon, I didn't make mention of any bovine crossbreeding or building demolition. I'd just like to give all zealots a fair shake, whether they carry sacred texts or beakers. They're all high priests of one kind or another!!


Biology is fascinating. Terribly difficult too. I was struggling up until about a month ago but now everyting has fallen into place. Osmoregulation, loop of henle, moss and ferns, transfer RNA, electron transport chain, vena cava, vaso-dilation, you can all suck my ass!

Yeah, RNA sucks majour ass. And stomates, too.

You're offended for real? Or is that your biting wit at work again?

If you can't tell, then I'm not telling!

That we evolved from primitive beings to have such magnificent brain-power. Admittedly it seems unbelievable, but for the evidence.

Couldn't care less about the primitive skulls of the past. Its where all these "magnificent brains" are taking us next that makes me sit up and wonder!

I doubt holding a small tiny container in your palm is going to make you take interest in science.

Uhh! You know what I mean.

It must be something about the American way of life then. Some national attitude towards science or something.

Yes, of course. Europe's sliding into the same dustbin as America, but I'm happy to say we're winning the race to "most expensively educated idiots in world history."

I go to an Irish language secondary school and I'm the only one in the entire college doing biology at a higher level (A level)

Prood're yer Gaelic, are'e way?

There's another girl doing physics a year below me, but asides from that, there are no other scientifically minded people.

Head's up. She's only there to meet guys. Women and physics don't mix convincingly. (Is not an insult. Its TRUTH.) In Russia, the education system teaches everyone advanced science and mathematics, whether they become physicists or farmers. Now, Obnynsk is a city outside Moscow with a famous physics lab and nuclear facility. Its said that every prostitute in Obnynsk has a PhD!

But yeah, there's only so much you can say about republicans without resorting to vulgar terminology.

Only lately, ever since they decided to become progressive democrats.

Jurched

 

[Jurched]

Of course I'm explaining why things evolve, it is the mechanisms of evolution such as natural selection, where traits that have a survival value for a population of organisms become dominant. Genetic drift deals with traits in a population that a distributed between generations by chance. Gene flow is simply mixing of these traits by two different populations. This is necessary to explain population phenomenon, with bacteria for example, that evolve novel traits and become resistant to medicine.

Once again, evolutionary evidence in primitive organisms such as bacteria! Changes such as reaction to a hostile environment have or the genetic drift have yet to yield a new genus. For all the changes, tis but a bacterium!

Mathematics supports evolutionary theory,

Please don't bring math into it. I beg you! Mathematics can be used to manipulate a desired result.

humans and chimpanzees have an identical cytochrome c protein sequence. Not a “similar” sequence, but an identical one. Why would two different species have an identical cytochrome c protein sequence when there is a seemingly endless functionally equivalent sequences? What are the chances of that?

The relevance of how said relationship came to pass is the basis of my dissention. However, studying the cytochrome c protein sequence is valid in so far that it may prove useful to our prosperity. Perhaps we may use Chimps as farms for human organs. (I hope we can do this before those zealous religious fanatics at PETA get in the way!!)

It is perhaps a problem for statisticians, especially the ones who are interested in mathematical probability, which has already been taking care of by a physicist named Hubert Yockey in his work “Information Theory and Molecular Biology”.

Statisticians! Even worse manipulators than the average boring mathematician!

Phylogenetic trees reconstruct evolutionary relationships, it is basically a tree of life. Even with a small number of organisms, there a numerous different trees possible, for organisms there is a possibility of 14 trillion different trees! There are two methods of phylogenetic reconstruction of various organisms, through morphological characteristics and molecular sequences, and they match with a high degree of statistical significance. Something that is very unlikely if organisms weren’t related.

Eh, the creationists have no problem with interrelationship of organisms. Neither do the transmutationists or spontaneous generationists.
Jurched

 

[Patrick R.]

Once again, evolutionary evidence in primitive organisms such as bacteria! Changes such as reaction to a hostile environment have or the genetic drift have yet to yield a new genus. For all the changes, tis but a bacterium!

Depending on which population of bacteria we are referring to. You aren't referring to our universal common ancestry, which did yield a new genus...you and I are apart of it. Indeed, the genetic heritage lives on in modern populations of organisms. But you admit that there are changes in DNA sequences in bacteria right?

Please don't bring math into it. I beg you! Mathematics can be used to manipulate a desired result.


The relevance of how said relationship came to pass is the basis of my dissention. However, studying the cytochrome c protein sequence is valid in so far that it may prove useful to our prosperity. Perhaps we may use Chimps as farms for human organs. (I hope we can do this before those zealous religious fanatics at PETA get in the way!!)

Statisticians! Even worse manipulators than the average boring mathematician!

A far better argument against the probability of humans and chimpanzees sharing an identical cytochrome c protein sequence would be to demonstrate that this protein correlates with environment and metabolism, not heredity. Lets say bats had a more similar cytochrome c protein sequence with hummingbirds, then with humans, because of the physiological requirements of flight. This isn’t the case, bats have a more similar sequence of this protein with humans then hummingbirds, this is caused by heredity. This is more evidence for evolution and common ancestry.

Eh, the creationists have no problem with interrelationship of organisms. Neither do the transmutationists or spontaneous generationists.
Jurched

Of course not, similar genes is a sign of the same creator, or a hidden message from god. That is what creationist claim…without any evidence. Believing in god is one thing, but don’t just pull this out of your ass.

 

[SueNC]

all argument aside, Ben Stein's movie, 'Expelled' opens today and i intend to be there to see it at some point this weekend.

 

[Patrick R.]

all argument aside, Ben Stein's movie, 'Expelled' opens today and i intend to be there to see it at some point this weekend.

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm far from an atheist, but I'm far from creationism as well. I'm not ready to disbelieve in a higher power, nor am I ready to believe that our "cells" and live forms on earth are so "complexed", that they would require an intelligent designer. That is just silly. Our cells are so complexed to the point they cause cancer? Death? Our DNA is so "complexed", but yet, the vast majority of it has absolutely no function at all? Not with coding for proteins or anything? This extra DNA can cause cancer, which is very complexed and also a sign of an intelligent designer? If humans can alter DNA sequences to create novel proteins such as enzymes, some used for biomedical purposes...then these biological properties are hardly of "godlike" proportions. Isn't that why genetic engineering is often referred to as "doing the work of god"?

 

[Evil Dead]

I am republican and proud to be formed from the primordial soup!!!!!!!!!!!


Actually, I am pro big/small business and anti lazy poor/minority/human leeches

 

[Hell_Awaits]

I am republican and proud to be formed from the primordial soup!!!!!!!!!!!


Actually, I am pro big/small business and anti lazy poor/minority/human leeches

How ironic. Thanks to the Rebulicans you'll soon be poor and a minority.

 

[EerieVon]

ALL THINGS EVOLVED FROM JESUS!!

But all fun things evolved from the devil

 

[Hallucinations]

How ironic. Thanks to the Rebulicans you'll soon be poor and a minority.

A genuine chuckle is so hard to come by these days

 

[Evil Dead]

How ironic. Thanks to the Rebulicans you'll soon be poor and a minority.

I work in the government and the democrats are the one who want to cut my ridiculous salary and funnel it to the poor who, which is odd, just keep staying poor!

2 degrees, and I am white, I think Ill be safe

 

[Dr Demented]

How ironic. Thanks to the Rebulicans you'll soon be poor and a minority.

Ahh...but things have only been really going downhill since the Dummycrats got the majority, n'est pa? Their refusal to allow domestic drilling and production of oil is why we have the current mess.

Back on topic...I think it's ALL a lie. There are a couple of major factions: The fools who believe that we evolved from apes...and the fools who believe we were molded from earth.

I think the truth would blow our minds out of the stratosphere of existence...there is an unexplained break in the so-called "development" of man...somewhere between neanderthal and homo erectus. Are we supposed to believe that one day we just stood up??!!??

Bullshit.

 

[Hell_Awaits]

Ahh...but things have only been really going downhill since the Dummycrats got the majority, n'est pa? Their refusal to allow domestic drilling and production of oil is why we have the current mess.

So who was blocking drilling from 2000 to 2007?...The republicans are about as useful as the dummycrats....I blame every politician since the last time OPEC turned the screws on us in the 70's. They could have been working towards making us energy independent, but no they built the strategic petroleum reserve and filled it with oil from OPEC. Does anyone have our back? I don't think so.

stood up[/i]??!!??

Bullshit.

We definitely came from the earth. There is'nt a single atom in your body that is'nt in the earth or the stars.

 

[whitey131]

Oil is a two fold deal. We use more and produce less....price goes up. The tree huggers that don't want to drill are just as much to blame as ever soccer mom who now drives a fucking tank.

 

[Dr Demented]

So who was blocking drilling from 2000 to 2007?...The republicans are about as useful as the dummycrats....I blame every politician since the last time OPEC turned the screws on us in the 70's. They could have been working towards making us energy independent, but no they built the strategic petroleum reserve and filled it with oil from OPEC. Does anyone have our back? I don't think so.

The Rhino's in the Republican party are just as much to blame, I agree...but they still had a lot of opposition to drilling...every Democrat plus a few idiotic Rhinos.

We definitely came from the earth. There is'nt a single atom in your body that is'nt in the earth or the stars.

I was referring to creationists and evolutionists...and "from the stars" is probably closer to what I think...

 

[whitey131]

Every Democrat?

 

[Dr Demented]

yeah...every Democrat in Congress and Senate...jeesh, do I need to explain everything?

 

[Jurched]

yeah...every Democrat in Congress and Senate...jeesh, do I need to explain everything?

Hey, Doctor! Don't listen to that Obama-worshipping bonobo! He evolved from primordial politics. That's why his grey matter struggles to survive among the more advanced species.

I have consistently voted Republican since I registered in 1992, and I must say, I've mostly voted for single-brain-cell organisms. They are so incompetantly weak, political evolution should consign them to extinction very soon.

That's not to say the Democrats are more advanced. On the contrary, they are the epitome of brutal savages, completely lacking brain cells all together. Case in point: the DNC won the 2006 elections by screaming and shouting like baboons on how bad the GOP was.

No issues, no platform, no positions, no plans, no ideas, no direction, no future. Just howling through the forest like the green monkeys.

And it worked! Pointing out how stupidly bad the GOP had become won them the election.

Since then, the DNC has been governing like drunken, incompetant simians. Congress has never been a worse shambles than under the Speaker of the Monkey Farm, Nancy Pelosi. What a gruesome drab!

So, that's a case of reverse evolution for you, which should not occur according to natural selection. Darwin did not take into account a species purposefully choosing to exterminate itself the way the GOP has done, yielding the political environment to totally backward, retarded, polluted, and perverted scum of the earth like the Democrats.

Evolution sucks ass, scientifically, socially, AND politically.

Jurched

 

[whitey131]

I'm an Obama worshiper?